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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A 15-Year Retrospective on the Lordship Controversy (by John MacArthur)

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It always comes down to how a man is justified, either by the works of the law, or by faith. Is man justified by his evidence, or by his faith?

John 6:29 This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.



 2011/7/17 0:10


A faithless person cannot "keep His Commandments".

Add James to my last post.

 2011/7/17 0:13


Well since you keep returning here after you said you were done, breaking the ninth commandment, are we to count you among the faithless?


 2011/7/17 0:21


Our Sister posted a link to a thread for us to read and I take this from pg 6 of that thread, that I was just reading the whole of.... excuse the code that I didn't remove from it. It's an older thread ....


"Certainly we never have permission to disobey God. Goes does not allow [i]any[/i] disobedience whatsoever.

The questions then become; what is the recourse if a Christian sins? What is a 'sin' in the first place?

Most would say that a 'sin' is an act of disobedience to the known will of God. Yet sin means to miss the mark also- so as not to achieve the prize. To sin is to [i]fall short of the glory of God[/i]. Sin is when we fail in the purpose of our existence- to be a perfect representation of God in the earth.

There is also the concept of 'trespassing' that is linked to sin. In fact, there are many ways of defining sin in Old Testament Hebrew (sin was made greatly sensitized) - with only a handfull in the NT. Every willful transgression is an act of rebellion .

There are sins of commission and sins of omission. There were 365 'don'ts' (neg) in the Old Testament and 248 'do's' (pos) with 613 laws in all. The Law demands absolute righteousness, in word and deed, in thought and intention, in all obedience, love, and devotion. When sin is found it requires payment of the debt, not only to "the uttermost farthing," but as McClintock says- in coin in which there is no trace of alloy.

As I mentioned on the other thread, the great challenge is the practical application of the known will of God to the endlessly diversified and complicated events and circumstances of daily life. Right and wrong often overlap, in that we cannot tell whether we ought to show mercy or execute a sentence. We are confounded by passages that tell us to judge not that we be not judged and others that require us put away from us a wicked person. We are pressed upon by conscience to uphold convictions when they conflict with a fellow believer and wot not whether to part company or remain in league. Case in point, Paul and Barnabas and the issue of John Mark. Errors of judgment lead to errors in action; error begets error.

Often when the smoke clears there is but one certainty- that I am [u]not[/u] perfect. If I had perfect knowledge, I would be none the better, as I had not the perfect wisdom to apply that knowledge. And if I had perfect wisdom I had not the power to make effectual the application. I come away with one certainty- I am [u]not[/u] perfect.

If I find myself in such a state that I am walking in what I believe to be the perfect will of God with no real desire to sin- not even as much a the draw of temptation- I am assured that it is the Holy Spirit propping me up. If I know such a state for an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year, or a decade I must know in my heart it is the underpinning and [i]hedge[/i] of the Holy Spirit. If God would remove the hedge- I had seen myself afresh as I am.

Therefore, the challenge in times of victory is to be honest about my state lest I get puffed up and God resist me. If I begin to look upon myself as if I were my own cause of holiness I will surely stumble. If I look with disdain upon sinners in need of repentance, having forgotten that I was once purged from my own sins- God will surely resist me. The best claim I ought to make is that there are no present [i]controversies[/i] between me and God. If there are no controversies and my conscience lay quiet- I must rightly define my estate. From this will I deduce that I am perfect- even as Christ? Nay verily! All it means is that there are no present controversies between me and God. To call this perfection is, to me, the grossest of over-exaggerations and will almost certainly incline me to pride, which, will bring destruction and a fall.

If we will walk in [i]humility[/i] in the times of victory we will have victory- there is no other way. God resists the proud and you cannot walk in victory in your own power."

from RobertW

 2011/7/17 0:27


Again I say, since you keep returning here after you said you were done, breaking the ninth commandment, are we to count you among the faithless?


 2011/7/17 0:39


To All,

Living by faith in Christ will necessarily be demonstrated by Christ's power revealing his righteousness.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation TO EVERY ONE that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:16-17)

Christ's power works in and is revealed in everyone who lives by faith. Christ's work on the cross will indeed forgive none but those who come to to live by his power. There is no such thing as an external salvation that forgives you but doesn't cause you overcome the world by Christ's life.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:4)

Jesus defined overcoming as keeping his works until the end according to Revelation 2:26. The world opposes these works, as the spirit of the world is fulfilling one's own lusts/desires (Ephesians 2:2-3, James 4:1-5) as opposed to doing God's will, which is the essence of Christ's words/works (see Matthew 7:21-27). Those works only come when God's grace transforms you into a new creature with a new heart who is not living under Satan's power in Adam; but rather under God's power in Christ. This is indeed evidence and proof of salvation. Look at the condition which Jesus gave of forgiveness of sins when he commissioned Paul to preach the gospel.

"To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, THAT THEY MAY RECEIVE forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." (Acts 26:18)

What if you are not under God's power? What if you are not sanctified? Can you still hope to have forgiveness of sins unless you totally reject the words of Jesus given above in Acts 26:18? Would you not thus and call him a liar?

Boasting in one's self comes by those living in the flesh seeking to be righteous in the flesh. Such boasters do not really overcome for the carnal mind is enmity against God and those in the flesh cannot please God (Romans 8). Those who are abiding in Christ do indeed overcome the world (1 John 5:4) and as a result know it is Christ who is doing the work; they thus glory in him alone. That doesn't change the fact that we must actually overcome by faith in Christ.

If you are truly born again and abiding in Christ you know that by Christ's grace you do what you couldn't do in the flesh; and you know that by his grace you don't do evil like you used to do- and you glorify God for that. If that's not your testimony, you need to examine yourself whether you are really in the faith and whether Christ is really lives in you, as the gospel of Christ is power to reveal the righteousness of God through everyone who believes and lives by faith (Romans 1:16-17)

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" (2 Corinthians 13:5)

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:11-14)

Are we good enough in the flesh to make ourselves acceptable to God by our performance? No. Romans 3:9-20 answers that clearly about those in Adam, as all who are in Christ, including myself, WERE at some point.

The question is, Does present faith in Christ leave our lives like they were in Adam?- or even remotely like they were in Adam? Can such a transformation NOT BE EVIDENT by the way we think/act? No way.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." (Romans 5:10)

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:5-6)

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27)

 2011/7/17 3:37

Joined: 2010/2/3
Posts: 144


I know I'm kind of interrupting here, so please forgive me.

Old_Joe, if it's alright with you I would like to ask you some questions, then depending on how you answer them I may ask some more questions. Again, if that's all right.

Would you say you are saved? or that you are a Christian?
Or perhaps a better way to put it, Do you believe in Jesus Christ for your salvation?

(Please note I DO NOT ask those in jest. I also do not ask them because I don't know the answer. But I do want it straight from the horses mouth. And there is a rhyme and reason why I am asking these questions. I would be super grateful if you just played along with me for a moment. :) Thanks.)


 2011/7/17 19:59Profile

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