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gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

even after the baptisim of the holy spirit ,,,,krautfrau

the scripture shows ,peter sinning greiviously ,with teach herisasy


paul needed to rebuke him for it

it is absulutly unscriptural to say that after baptisim of the holy spirit ,they were sinless ,,wroung in otther words

paul also fell back in to the law , it shows him taking a vow and geting his head shaved

james also sinned ,by fellowship wth judadizers



can you confess that you have nevver sinned scinc you were baptized in the holy spirit ,and can you say you have no faults and are sinless and perfct

if so you are even greater then the apostals ,,and we may as well call you jesus

 2011/7/8 15:50Profile









 Re:

You cannot prove that the apostles were sinning daily, only that they fell on occasion. Can you give me the verses that show Paul and James sinned? A mistake is not a sin, but Peter did sin as he acted out of fear.

I did fall after baptism for quite a long period, going through some dark night when I lost the presence of God, but He restored me and no I do not sin now, I am in God`s will in everything I do. You will have to call many others Jesus too, the ones who have walked in holiness before me including those in the OT like Enoch and Job.

 2011/7/8 15:58
gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

i didnt say a was trying to prove that the apostals were comiting greivious sins daily ,that would only prove they were of the devil,for he who comits sin is of the devil

i thought we all knew the bible well enough here to no that paul also shrunk back and performed works of the law ,

youll find it if you look hard enough brother

the same with the jews which came from james who where insisting on circumisisium as well as faith in christ ,, paul spoke abut them,

a mistake shows the opasite of perfection

jesus didnt make mistakes he was perfect

we make mistakes ,and sin unintenionly

sin is interpreted as missing the mark ,mistakes are missing the mark

sin is not just adultry murder ,and those types of sins


ok so you ar saying that you can fall after baptisim of the holy spirit ,,so you wernt perfect ,and still arnt perfect ,,,, so after spirit baptisim you werent made perfect ,other wise you would not have been able to fall as you said ,,,,,,,,that was all i was saying brother

and you really agree with saying what you said

now you say you dont sin now ,,how am i to believe that stament when you have all ready fallen after you conversion , proving you wernt pefect ,, common scence say that is not true
and the bible calls me and you ,to confess our faults to one one another ,and pray for one one another ,for the efecual fevern pray of a righeous man avils much

showing that if you truly are a righeous man you will confess your faults ,, do you know the scripture im refuring to bro . james 5,16

the contex is comparing this one who confesses his faults and prayes for healing to the righeous man elijah,,

the bible show in the book of hebrews that the propherts who where righeous ,but they offered scarfices first for there own sins and then for israles sin ,,,,,,

all, the preists in the old testament gave offering for there own sins ,,,,,it is plainly writtern in hebrews

if you really want me to give you the chapter and the verses i will ,,,,,,somtimes its better we check it out our self ,,we nomarly see other things will we are looking for the scripture we want

brother that is why they need scarifices in the old testament for there sins ,,,hebrews also revels,that none of these scarfices made anyone perfect , the blood of bulls could not do it

please dont misundertsand me bro ,i dont believe there is salvation with out true repentance ,and the fruits of repentance must become evedent as must the fruit of the spirit ,,,one must become a new creation in jesus christ ,old things must pass away all things must become new ,, we must live in the spirit ,and crusafie the flesh ,it must happen,, our righeousness must excede that of the pharises,,we must be born again we must bare good fruit



 2011/7/8 20:55Profile
gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

some people say that afer true conversion one can become absaluty perfect and sinless ,and that is there definition of perfect ,,,,,,,,,if you dont mean that ,then im sorry i said any thing ,,becasue my post was aimed toward ones who cofess sinlessnes after conversion ,,

maby i a misunderstod what you ment ,,is that what you are saying

 2011/7/8 21:02Profile









 Re:

gazzer

I was not perfected at conversion, it happened quite a few years after.

Paul circumsized Timothy too during that period of changeover where God tolerated the continuance of the Jewish law, it was not a sin so long as they knew that salvation came through Christ. He may not have sacrificed, we cannot know. To enlist an act which would remove prejudice would be actually wise under the circumstaces.

However, it may be that he did sin as he had fallen from his position of being led entirely by the Holy Spirit, which is the position of those who have been entirely sanctified, as he had decided to ignore the warnings of not going to Jerusalem which the Holy Spirit had given, but which Paul evidently thought were coming from man. He was arrested during a period where he was much needed which could not have been Gods will for him.

So perhaps he fell in with a mistaken idea the others had because he was not walking in fullness. They could all have fallen into sin at that point, who knows.

One can fall into sin when perfect, as the angels and Adam showed. We are not expected to have perfect minds, they still suffer from the effects of the fall and we can make an error of judgement which is the type of mistake Wesley talks about. Sin however comes from a wrong attitude of heart and from not loving the Lord our God with the whole heart and our fellow man as ourselves. So man can have the right attitude but make an error from not having all of the information to make a sound judgement. We do not sin unintentionally - it all comes from what is in the heart and we don`t know what is there but a sin will show it even if it takes us by surprise. If we have the new heart, then that does not happen anymore.

The scriptures calls certain men perfect in the OT and they were not priests, offering or sin apart from Job who offered fro his sons.

By the way I am a sis.

 2011/7/9 6:44
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

dear krautfrau,your post starts out with i ... Jesus said that there was none good,no not one.salvation is all about being born from above. you have nothing to do with being born.and you have nothing to do with holding on to your salvation...it is all Grace and the finished work of Jesus. if Jesus said that noone is good than surely noone is perfect except for Jesus Himself.we are holy because He is holy...we are perfect because He is perfect.jimp

 2011/7/9 7:13Profile









 Re:

I agree - He is my sanctification. He does not half do anything - He can perfect us in an instant because it is Him doing it and not us.

 2011/7/9 7:19
JB1968
Member



Joined: 2009/8/31
Posts: 416
Ohio USA

 Re:

Many misunderstand what perfection is. There are different kinds of perfection. There is absolute perfection, which God alone has. There is adamic perfection, which Adam had. We don't even have that. Could you name all the animals? There is angelic perfection. We are not there yet. And then there is Christian perfection. This is loving God with all our heart and loving our neighbor as ourselves. Jesus talked about this. Wesley taught this, as well as those teachers of holines, such as J. A. Wood, A. M. Hills, H. Orton Wiley, etc. Paul talked about perfection in Phillippians. This perfection is not absolute, but a pure relationship with God, free from sin and filled with the Spirit. This does mean a person could not sin, but that they have the victory over sin. A complete and full salvation. Can a person fall after sanctification? Yes, but they don't have too.


_________________
James

 2011/7/9 12:37Profile
gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

yea i agree with that type of regerate perfection ,which still falls short of christs sinlessness pefection

keith daniel once said its righeousness imputed ,and righousness imparted ,,,,yea justafication and sanctfication ,are joined gifts and cant be seperated

 2011/7/9 19:02Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

To my fellow wannabe SINLESS Christians.

By your logic, A rock never sins, therefore it must be perfect and most pleasing to God.

However, there is a ROCK that never sinned, Jesus our Lord, and against the rules of the Mosaic Covenant, He was badly beaten and crucified on a tree, THE PERFECT LAMB OF GOD WHOSE SHED ATONING BLOOD WASHES AWAY ALL OUR SINS FOR ALL TIME TO ALL WHO ACCEPT THIS GIFT BY FAITH, THEREBY BELIEVING GOD. [Yes, salvation IS this easy]And upon Jesus death, the heavy and sturdy curtain in the Temple that separated God from man was torn apart, and at that moment of Jesus death, ALL that God promised about our salvation was fulfilled by and in Jesus, and God the Father Annihilated the Mosaic Covenant.

Keep in mind that God made only one bilateral Covenant with the peoples, the Mosaic Covenant. All of God's other Covenants were unilateral.

Zec 11:10-13

10 I took my staff Favor and cut it in pieces, to break my COVENANT which I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was broken on that day, and thus the afflicted of the flock who were watching me realized that it was the word of the LORD. 12 I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. 13 Then the LORD said to me, "THROW IT TO THE POTTER, THAT MAGNIFICENT PRICE AT WHICH I WAS VALUED BY THEM." So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD. NASU

AS FOR THE NONSENSE OF US BEING SINLESS:

1 John 1-10

What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life — and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us — what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, AND THE BLOOD OF CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN8.

8. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE ARE DECEIVING OURSELVES AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.

9. IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, HE IS FAITHFUL AND RIGHTEOUS TO FORGIVE OUR SINS AND TO CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

10. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NOT SINNED, WE MAKE HIM A LIAR AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US.

NASU

As for me, I am cleansed of all my sins by the blood of Jesus, the perfect Paschal Lamb, whose innocent blood shed on the cross washes away all my sins for all time. My mind is not focused on my sins nor on becoming sinless, but on the gift of eternal life, my daily fellowship with God through the indwelling Holy Spirit whom works in me to accomplish God's transformation of my nature to do the very good God created all of us to do. This is God's work in me. I simply stay in fellowship with Him daily and am grateful for all He is doing in me. I have faith that He will accomplish His purpose in me. When the curtain separated in the Temple, that gave us a direct fellowship with God, as if we were back in the Garden of Eden and walking with Him daily.

And I know I will not be sinless in my current life on Earth, and there are many who can testify to this fact.
But I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in me will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

My joy is complete.





_________________
Arthur Biele

 2011/7/10 6:23Profile





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