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 Re:


Can we move on to Romans 8 now?

Not only do we have the ONE Who Did do it All right, living inside us but something that we seem to have forgotten --- that His Word is Equally as Powerful as His Spirit.

One in the same. The Word of GOD and The Spirit of GOD ...

and He tells me, "I can do ALL THINGS through Him that strengthens me and by His Word I'm made clean."


Yippee!

We even have bleachers full of fans cheering us on in Hebrews 11, besides the Angels. :)

What team potential we have to be the Overcomers He spoke about!

Go Team Go!!!

 2011/7/7 21:58
YHLives
Member



Joined: 2010/11/25
Posts: 9


 Re:

Self righteousness, desire for holiness as a way of seizing power and control (be it for rewards, pathological satisfaction or out of the fear of punishment) stinks as much as co-opting the themes of salvation for justification of personal satisfaction, rewards or out of indolence/inertia.

Unless we can frame the issues clearly and state clearly what are the underlying desires for all decisions, we are just playing word games. Please tell me how a Christian, if ever, can come to faith just from an argument won (without the work of the Holy Spirit).

Romans 8 starts with no condemnation and ends with no separation. Almost like a snapshot of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit working joyously in the workshop , and we can almost hear how Paul was struggling to contain his excitement in articulating the grand themes of life in the spirit, heirdom with Christ, hope of glory and everlasting love of God.

Any attempt to appropriate either this text or others for the sake of justifying ones own desire for control and power is doing the Word of God, and with greater implication the work at Calvary, a great injustice.

 2011/7/8 0:11Profile









 Re:


Quote:
Do we REALLY need to continually hear that "we can't"



ActuaLly, YES!

If you want to bring despair onto a believer, tell them to be perfect, and that they are expected to be so. In a matter of days most peoples hearts will testify that this is just not so.

When the Bible says to 'be ye perfect' it is telling us that to humble us, and to the first person who disagrees, I say then don't just flap the lips about perfection, but demonstrate it for us. When you keep failing sooner or later you'll get some sense in the matter.

OJ

 2011/7/8 0:18









 Re:

Oh dear YHLives, there's the reason of Love. If we look at 1Corth13 and apply it to our Love for Him. Words can't do justice of why we would want to be "like Him". It's like wanting to crawl under His skin to be as close as possible to Him because we love Him so.

"SELF-righteousness, control or power" is just the opposite of what He is making us into. Laying aside who we were or are in "faith" that He'll work to fulfill His Word.

How can one explain the desire that comes from Love alone?

Friend, the more of Him that you see - all the things that you mentioned turn to less than dust.

Yes ~ "we can almost hear how Paul was struggling to contain his excitement in articulating the grand themes of life in the spirit, heirdom with Christ, hope of glory and everlasting love of God."

My excitement is that I don't have to stay in any pit of despair because of His promises to deal with those things that even I don't like about myself, nonetheless others but more importantly Him and why? - only because knowing that He being Creator GOD took our flesh upon Himself and suffered more than any man, so that we can be forgiven.

How can one compare forgiveness with anything "self-centered" when they know 'what' they've been forgiven of.
I who was the wretch of the earth can now call Him my Husband, Father, Friend ---- Unmerited, more than we can grasp.
That He would actually put His Spirit into something like me despite what I was and am. That only makes one fight tears. I can't understand how "self" and any desires For 'self' could enter the mind of a regenerated human before the very Face of GOD Almighty.
How could any of us truly experience Him and see Him as GOD and be before His throne and desire "power and control"? That was and is Lucifer's way. The rich men of the earth that want to be the Gods of this earth have Lucifer for their father and their desire for control and power comes from him.
What differentiates a truly regenerated person from them - if it isn't His Love that He's put into our hearts?
With Love comes desire. He puts His desires into our hearts and from there it is a very lively hope of disappearing into Him. To HIS GLORY ONLY, comes from the mouths of His True Bride. When our own thoughts, words and actions mean nothing unless He's in it. When we can see through His eyes - have His thoughts - when before our father was the devil. The transforming work He's done in His Own. How do we not see that and not Love Him for it. Being rescued besides.
Try to describe this Love. Only maybe the Song of Solomon or 1 Corth 13 begins to and HE is "the reward" at the end of our days. He is the enabler. Nothing that originates in our own mind pleases Him and shouldn't please us neither.
He wrote the Book that should occupy our thoughts and come out of our mouths, with His Own Spirit indwelling and enabling us. Our only cry is to go "deeper still" into Him or that He take us Home to Himself. That's the sole desire, Friend - to be in Him.



 2011/7/8 1:06









 Re:


Hi Joe. No one who reads the entire New Testament and leans with all that they are on every single Word of it, will ever be in "despair".

Just take Him at His Word or we're guilty of adding or subtracting from Him, Himself - The Word of GOD.

GOD is not a liar. His Word is Equally as powerful as His Spirit -- and in His transforming work in us as well. If that were not so - He wouldn't have used The Word alone against Satan in the wilderness. His Word is all that we need after we've received the gift of His indwelling Spirit.


His Love.

 2011/7/8 1:27
gazzer
Member



Joined: 2011/4/30
Posts: 99


 Re:

keep it in contex brothers and sisters

the bible does also say
confess your falts to one another
and pray for one another that you may be heald
for the efectual fevernt pray of a righeous man avals much

this scripture is saying that the righeous man or womman ,has faults that need confessing

so to be righeous is not have faults but be in a state of confession wrought by repentance

not sinless or faultless utter perfection

the lord said to all of us all pray in this manner ,FOR GIVE US OF OUR SINS as we forgive those who sin against

this pray is a continual prayer , we will allways pray


strive for perfection , would be aproprate to say

even after giving up drugs alcahole cigaretts

fornacation
adultry
idorarty
through the power of regenaration
and many other sins mentioned in the bible

i still sin every day ,and need to pray in like manner
for give me father of my trespasses

look at petter he sined after regenration
look at paull he sined as well

look at the argumant paull had with barnabas they sined


who here can honestly say you prayed enough to day ,being that we think we are perfect, how much should we pray

how much does a perfect christan fast ,,,three days a week or four

how much does the perfect christan read the word of god

6 hours a day


i heard john weasly if im not imperfect and wroung about this ,that he studied 12 hours a day the word of god

how much sleap should the sinless christan ..6 hours a night

how many people does the sinless christan witness to in one day to make him sinless
1 or 50 ,,,,,what are the posability


what does the super christan do in his day if he is utterly perfect like jesus

how many all night pray sessions did you do this week

iv never met this sinless christan

well iv met one

his name is jesus christ ..ian

who here can confess to us all that there are sinless and perfect

well if you you can confess that ,you have just lied

and need to confess your fault

iv sinned in any ways today

i didnt pray for long enough no where near enough ,,im imbarest to say only one hour today was prayer

i didnt read the word of god today only 5 minutes how sinfull is that

tho i listened to about 6 sermons of a w tozer

it should have been more like ten

i eat to much today ,,and i slepted to much to today


i sin every day but i hate it thats for sure

im not idolartus

and i dont believe i couvert materal things

i dont love money

i dont kill
or rape or muder

i dont perform othes

i didnt use a curse word for a long time

i dont steel

i love righeousness and i hate lawlesness

but i sin every day in word and in deed

and in thought
tho i renew my mind dayley

im gentil ,my wife said
kind
loving to people
but i dont love god that way i should
and i dont love god the he should be loved

im paicent but could be more paicent

and last of all im a shocking at spelling lol

and should take the time to correct my spelling ,,but i cant be botherd

i need god grace daily

and it is becasue of my faults that i desire more of him

and i dont want that to change

when i thought i was all that once upon a time ,, i didnt need god , why would i need god ,if im already all that ,and perfect

that was me befor regeneration ,, perfect and sinless
with a seared concence

dont want to feel like that again

a pray nobody will feel sinless amen and amen













 2011/7/8 4:48Profile









 Re:

Well first off, the Lords prayer was given to the disciples for them to pray in the kingdom in themselves, which happened at Pentecost. Even though they had been following the Lord, they were not under the control of the Holy Spirit till they were Spirit baptised, which made them holy - the Holy Spirit makes us holy.

So they were to ask for forgiveness at the time when they were still sinning. Walking in pertfection does not mean that one will never sin again - Peter fell from that when he sinned,but as there is no record of any other sin, we can safely say that he was restored.

Jesus saves us from our sins which means we are freed from them. It may lead to despair to hear that one is not in the kingdom if one still sins daily, but that despair is just what brings a man to Christ for cleansing and full salvation. Otherwise we are in danger and not in the ark and it is right to despair.

How much shall we pray if we are perfect?

We shall pray without ceasing. Everything we do will be under the control of Christ. If the LOrd calls them to fast or pray all night then they will but they will not be going around telling others about it.

How long should the perfect Christian read scripture a day? The living word is written on their hearts and it is not the amount of time spent but the ability to hear God and have it confirmed by scripture. There is no hard and fast rule. Some days it will be hours and another not much.

Lastly, the righteous need Him more than ever to keep them in that state of grace as it is through the power of God alone.

 2011/7/8 7:23
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, it is all about grace,mercy and faith and not of yourself lest you can boast.Jesus paid it all... all to Him i owe...sin left a crimson stain and He washed it white as snow. He conquered sin for us on the cross so that we do not have to be sin consceous but to be looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. you who are always looking at sin in yourselves and others are denying what Jesus did on the cross. He already took the wrath of His Father for sin on Himself so that there is no more condemnation(krino-judgement)for those who are in Christ Jesus. it is all about Him and not about wee, little you or me.jimp

 2011/7/8 7:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It may lead to despair to hear that one is not in the kingdom if one still sins daily, but that despair is just what brings a man to Christ for cleansing and full salvation.



So are you saying that anyone who sins daily is not saved? Can you honestly say you have not sinned in the last week whether in thought, word or deed? Also, how many times have people (I know I have) despaired and gone to Christ for full cleasning, only to find themselves tripping up again? I suppose God doesn't really want to save such people.

This is my problem with perfection theology. Instead of leading to joyful obedience in freedom it leads to condemnation and despair and is about as far from 'Good News' as anything can be.

 2011/7/8 8:00









 Re:

If Jesus saves us from sin, then how can a man think he is saved if he is not free from it? Many believers do not go on to full salvation. The Lord keeps me free from sin but most of my life as a believer has been one of failure, until I fully trusted Him to save me from sin.

It does take more than just coming to Christ for cleansing, one has to be fully consecrated to Him, having made the decision to be finished with all things that are outside of His will and have faith that He will do the work.

It does lead to joyful obedience but the devil makes sure that this doctrine is misunderstood so that despair ensures. It is not the doctrine at fault.

 2011/7/8 9:21





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