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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Origin Of Christmas?

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Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re:

Thanks Jouko,
I have 3 young children,they enjoy the celebrations they also clearly know that "we dont live for christmas"
our faith goes beyond the tinsle and glitter :-)
Also thanks adonaisarmy some of what you said is helpful, and welcome to SI ;-)


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derek Eyre

 2004/12/12 9:18Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: christmas

Hi guys! My views about Christmas have changed dramatically over the last 3 years. The pendulum has swung from one end of the spectrum (christmas is totally pagan and Santa menas satan!) to now a more middle ground, balanced approach that I believe the Lord has allowed me to come to. I am at peace with what the Lord has shown me and I have full confidence that if we are to change anything, He will surely show us, as He has done so many times before about other things.

I think when you first come to a deeper relationship with Christ and you recognize that you have been sucked into many of the world's ways of worshipping and living out your Christianity, it is natural to start to question everything, including holidays. This is good! It makes us be introspective and see what matters to most to God and not ourselves. Not tradition, not other people's ideas, etc... We must be obedient to what God Himself calls us each to do.

I remember getting caught up in the "Christmas is pagan so it's from the devil" mindset. I wrestled with it and knew it would tear our families apart. I soon discovered that there is a better way, a more excellent way - and it is love. December 25 is God's, just like every other day is His. It is for His glory, just like every other day should be. Whatever started out being something celebrated for pagan reasons, I choose to take that back and celebrate Christ instead. Our family makes the most of this time to show LOVE, real, unconditional love, to others.

I could go on and on but it is easier to just let actions and the Holy Spirit speak louder.

Here is our family's Christmas pages that i made last year if anyone is interested in how we celebrate Christmas. (I know many of you have been on here longer than me, so you will remember this from last year.) The pictures are a bit dated too- since now my oldest is 15 and my youngest is 6. Maybe I'll get Arielle to update the pictures today- she knows how to do that kind of stuff! :-)

[url=http://www.moreofhim.net/christmas2.html]Christmas Pages[/url]

I pray that you will all have a very blessed holiday season! Enjoy these times to the fullest, show love and compassion to those who need it. Shine Christ's love out of you, let it radiate and warm every heart who comes near you. Let Jesus speak through your actions and words.

In His perfect love, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/12/12 10:35Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Hi Adonaisarmy,

Appreciate your contribution here and just want to say that between all that you have posted and looking back through the rather long reference I had posted earlier (on American Christmas origins), that if there is anything that is clear it's that it's anything but that.

The reasoning for that particular link was that it was from what I could tell a more 'unbiased' approach. Obviously the 'contradictions' he mentions in regards to the Gospel accounts of the birth of Jesus give that away.

But the question that I find asking here is not one of justification one way or the other, but to just be honest about where we are today.

To attach meaning to something that has long been lost to pagan worship even if it was true then doesn't necessitate that the same is true now.

From what I can gather out of most of this, the thought behind what many of the Christians through the ages was not a conforming to the worlds ways but as an alternative and that may or may not have been a good idea.

How many sincere believers would knowingly attach themselves to pagan rites and rituals? And more importantly is that really what is going on today?

Well, I guess it only gets more muddy from there. It does boil down to meaning and intentions.

Quote:
In understanding that we were never commanded to celebrate the birth of christ


Nor were we commanded not to, so I don't see how we can make a case of that.

Growing up, Christmas was always a time of wonder, of expectation, of hope and great joy and love. It was a big deal around my house. Sure, as a kid it had plenty of selfishness to it, "What am I gonna get?" yet at the same time giving was always something that I loved to do, always wanted to find something that was 'perfect' for the person and would go far out the way to track it down.

The house always had Christmas music playing, all the classics and many fond memories are kindled hearing them now. It's not the gift's that I remember but the love given and shared. The smells. "O Little Town of Bethlehem", "Silent Night", "O Holy Night"...which to this day brings tears to my eyes, but now for altogether different reasons.

I was raised in a good home, we were Catholics by denomination and though my theology was muddy and wouldn't have been what we called 'saved' in evangelistic terms there was a strong foundation and importance of God in our family. Christmas was still about the birth of Jesus and that was something that was not lost. It's interesting to look back now from this perspective and see that for all that I may disagree with theologically I thank God for having parents that instilled morals and a foundation of Christian understanding even if it didn't all sink in and even as I went into prodigal living for quite some time.

But all I am trying to get at here is that Christmas, for all that has gone wrong with it in our day with it's materialism and commercialization gone wild (and strangely the effort to actually take Jesus Christ right out of the whole intention and bring it back into some kind of pagan 'winter solstice' or whatever they want to call it), certainly means something altogether different to sincere Christians, nominal Christians and to the unbeliever alike.

[b]O Holy Night[/b]

O holy night, the stars are brightly shining;
It is the night of the dear Savior’s birth!
Long lay the world in sin and error pining,
Till He appeared and the soul felt its worth.
A thrill of hope, the weary soul rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.
Fall on your knees, O hear the angel voices!
O night divine, O night when Christ was born!
O night, O holy night, O night divine!

Led by the light of faith serenely beaming,
With glowing hearts by His cradle we stand.
So led by light of a star sweetly gleaming,
Here came the wise men from Orient land.
The King of kings lay thus in lowly manger,
In all our trials born to be our Friend!
He knows our need—to our weakness is no stranger.
Behold your King; before Him lowly bend!
Behold your King; before Him lowly bend!

Truly He taught us to love one another;
His law is love and His Gospel is peace.
Chains shall He break for the slave is our brother
And in His Name all oppression shall cease.
Sweet hymns of joy in grateful chorus raise we,
Let all within us praise His holy Name!
Christ is the Lord! O praise His name forever!
His pow’r and glory evermore proclaim!
His pow’r and glory evermore proclaim!

Words: Placide Clappeau, 1847; trans­lat­ed from French to Eng­lish by John S. Dwight (1812-1893). Clap­peau, a wine mer­chant and may­or of Roque­maure, France, wrote po­ems for his own en­joy­ment.

Music: Adolphe C. Adam (1803-1856) (MI­DI, score). This is said to have been the first mu­sic ev­er broad­cast over a ra­dio
[url=http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/h/oholynit.htm]http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/h/oholynit.htm[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/12/12 11:30Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:Christmas

Here's a couple of threads from last year:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1008&forum=35#5493]Tozer on Christmas 02[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=835&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]christmas and the christian[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/12/12 12:36Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: The Origin Of Christmas?

Dear Dian,

My heart goes out to you and my prayers sister.

Quote:
One of my most fervent prayers lately has been, "God, teach me to think like you think. Teach me how to really love others from my heart." I'm seeing how Christmas isn't about loving others, it's about loving ourselves.



Like that prayer, me too...

On that last part, one thing, we can change that!
We can make it about loving others, in everything we do. May God grant us the ability to do so, and in the way He would have each of us reflect the image of His Son.

"[i]Teach me how to really love others from my heart[/i]" Amen.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/12/12 12:51Profile
Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re:

Thanks Mike the links are great,
Chanin, i enjoyed your link to, thanks for that :-)


_________________
derek Eyre

 2004/12/12 17:18Profile
phebebird
Member



Joined: 2004/11/23
Posts: 91
San Pedro, California

 Keep Christ in Christmas

I must admit to being somewhat alarmed by this thread. I would hope that I never see the day that Christians would turn their backs on centuries of Christian wisdom and tradition when it comes to Easter and Christmas. Just because these holidays have become so commercialized in our day and in our particular culture does NOT mean that we should divorce ourselves from our past and use our own hands to take the "Christ" out of "Christmas". Are we so proud as to think that we are the only generation of Christians that know the Lord and are "enlightened"? I think not. Be very careful...

I liked crsschk's comments about Christmas when he was a child. I grew up in a very strong Christian home and Christmas was always a time that I felt very close to Christ and to His wonderful story. We had manger scenes all over the house and the biggest Christmas tree you've ever seen. We went out caroling and to see boatloads relatives.

Christmas is a very special time to me. There is one Christmas experience that especially stands out to me although it did not happen at Christmas at all. It was the middle of July and I was 16 yr old, and very far away from home in Sierra Leone, West Africa on a mission trip. I was homesick and completely worn out by the suffering and pain and poverty all around. I had already been there for more than a month. I had just arrived back at the mission house from an evening outreach with some people from the church. The electricity was out as it usually was. I lighted a kerosene lantern and ate my groundnut stew by the flickering light. I remember that in my heart I was crying out to the Lord for encouragement, a comforting word, something.

About that time, the kerosene went out and I was sitting in pitch blackness--I couldn't even see my hand in front of my face. Then I heard my housemate come padding quietly the stairs.
"Phebe,I found my flute," she said, "shall I play something for you?"
"Sure," I said, not really caring, "Go ahead."
"All I know is Christmas songs," she said.
"Alright."
The music was beautiful. It was so dark that I couldn't even see her playing. It was just me and the music and the thick blanket of the African night--and the Presence of God. She played one song after another. I knew every verse and every word--words of Christ and His love and His sacrifice for us. Tears were gushing quietly down my cheeks as I thanked God for His love for me and for this lost world.

I know it was my friend that played for me that night, but it felt like it was God Himself. My heart was overwhelmed and cried out "lead me to the Rock that is Higher than I"--and He did.

Whenever I think of the real meaning of Christmas, I always think of that "Christmas" in July in the middle of a very dark night when Christ reached out and touched me.

Phebe

Hail the Heaven-born Prince of Peace!
Hail the Son of Righteousness!
Light and life to all He brings,
Risen with healing in His wings.

Mild He lays His glory by,
Born that man no more may die,
Born to raise the sons of earth,
Born to give them second birth.

Heark, the hearald angels sing!
Glory to the newborn King!


_________________
Phebe

 2004/12/12 18:18Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Keep Christ in Christmas

Dear Phebe,

Thank you. That is just beautiful, bless you.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/12/13 0:19Profile





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