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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: CORRIE TEN BOOM AND THE RAPTURE


Most of everyone on SI knows that I have leaned towards post trib but I’ve silently been watching this thread on and off and now I've begun to wonder if we ALL don’t have it wrong.

The Word of God speaks only only of one return of Christ whether we like it or not. And it is only we (human beings), who are fussing about when that is – the Word of God changes not but we all are like ants scouring here and there trying to defend what "we" think the word of God says instead of what it actually does say.

I pray that you will never see me on here again defending post trib or ANY kind of trib because anymore I honestly believe that these different beliefs are just distractions from the enemy to keep us from ministering to the orphans and the widows in their need and to keep ourselves unspotted from the world.

Brothers and sisters in the Lord, I beseech you that we need to get lined up with the Word of God instead of buttressing our OWN opinions to give our flesh confidence over confidence in the Word of the living God.

Paul said, “I count EVERYTHING as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as RUBBISH, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.” Philippians 3.8-11

Submitted in love.
To God be all the Glory,

Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/7/11 9:11Profile









 Re:

HI Lysa,

This is not a contentious thread, not sure casting it in that light is helpful or constructive. It is true that most on this site is Post Trib. It is also true that 80% of the Christian world is not. It is perhaps true that this is a reflection of the state of Christianity that they would choose to believe in a doctrie that whisks them away before they have to go through any tribulation.

Always be ready to give an answer for what you believe sister, and speak the truth in love, in that we cannot go wrong, we can be wrong and none of us have a perfect theology, but our hearts will be right before the living God..........brother Frank

PS I could care less about proving a theology to men, gave that up and only rarely comment on SI anymore.

 2011/7/11 9:43
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1581


 Re:

Hi Appolus,
For me all I wanted to highlight was said more elequently by the previous christian Alreadymind when he said this,

"I love Ten Booms writings, but the notion that someone is more "theologically" correct because they have suffered is not really a biblical notion. Hebrews eleven shows a list of some who suffered and some who won victories unto glory. All were included, however, in the hall of faith, as we are so fond of calling it. We need to always be content in whatever state God has placed us in. "

I do except the point that people like Corrie are to be taken and listened to seriously because she walked the walk and talked the talk.

The fact the theology was about the rapture was only a side event.In response to mr darby and schofield,I have heard that claim disputed.My view point is mid seven year period of which their is alot of scriptural evidence.
yours staff

 2011/7/11 19:00Profile









 Re:

Staff writes.......

"Hi Appolus,
For me all I wanted to highlight was said more elequently by the previous christian Alreadymind when he said this,"

I know that brother, and I appreciate the points that you have made. It was definately Darby and Schofield that propogated this new doctrine of a pre-trib-rap. Everything can be disputed :) God bless you Staff........ brother Frank

 2011/7/11 20:16
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi staff...

Quote:

The fact the theology was about the rapture was only a side event.



Good point.

There always seems to be a disconnect when individuals discuss this topic in regard to those who believe in a "catching away" of the Bride of Christ before the period when God's wrath will be poured out. It is almost as if some believers are accusing those who believe in such a pre-wrath gathering as though they want "an easy way out" in order to avoid tribulation or persecution in this life. That is a very inaccurate thing to imply.

There is a very big difference between being prepared to endure and suffer through the trials, tribulations and persecutions from human beings during this life...and suffering wrath at the hand of God. God has NOT appointed believers to suffer His wrath. It seems that this wrath has been stored up...but for unbelievers. He has promised to keep us FROM (as opposed to "during") that "hour of trial" or "hour of temptation" that will come upon the entire Earth (Revelation 3:10).

Quote:
In response to mr darby and schofield,I have heard that claim disputed.



I agree. This allegation has been discussed at length in many of the previous discussions at SermonIndex. The notion of a gathering of the Bride of Christ BEFORE the period of God's wrath has been mentioned from at least ~373 A.D. That is roughly 1,500 years before Darby.

It is possible to come out of prayerful study of this topic WITHOUT arriving to a definite conclusion of the matter. I certainly understand the arguments on all sides of the discussion.

Currently, I still lean toward a strong possibility that the Bride of Christ will be gathered together BEFORE the time that God's wrath will be poured upon the entire Earth. This would be much like the Hebrew tradition of a groom suddenly gathering his bride once their home has been prepared. Now, I am keenly aware that we may remain here during that time. However, if this is correct, I believe that believers will be protected from that wrath -- even if they continue to endure the Hellish tribulation at the hands of the forces of darkness.

It may not be popular to avoid taking a definitive stand on an issue that might not be exceedingly clear. People are often quick to point the finger at such believers as though they are eager to avoid truth...or content on believing what they want to believe. This couldn't be further from the truth -- no matter how much some may try to insist. Rather, I think that it is important to remember that one thing that is worse than NOT taking an absolute stand on an issue like this is taking the WRONG stand (even if it is slightly wrong) and then proclaiming that position as though it is absolutely true.

Or, it can be difficult for a believer to search for the truth of a matter by the leading of the Holy Spirit and prayerful study of God's Word when they are TOLD what to believe by someone without the Biblical test (I Thessalonians 5:21).

Sometimes, it is better to have the Keith Green's "pray for pre-trib but prepare for post-trib" mentality...or David Wilkerson's "pan-trib" theory -- that it will all "pan out" in the end. We can always continue to seek God for direction in this. As long as we keep the faith and trust in Christ Jesus with the honest and sincere study of His Word, we will be okay.

The Lord bless you!


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Christopher

 2011/7/12 1:54Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Appolus

Quote:
appolus wrote:
This is not a contentious thread, not sure casting it in that light is helpful or constructive. It is true that most on this site is Post Trib.


I apologize because I did not mean to imply that it was a contentious thread; I was not trying to be unhelpful or ‘deconstructive,’ if that word applies here. I was honestly trying to share my heart on where I have been on the end times and where I’m trying to walk presently with the Lord.

Also, I’m sorry you don’t recommend SI to anyone anymore. It’s not my website for sure and I don’t always agree (and I would add that ‘most’ don’t always agree with me either!) but I still find it an excellent resource for anyone looking for excellent sermons and good conversation in Christ.

Quote:
appolus continues:
Always be ready to give an answer for what you believe sister, and speak the truth in love, in that we cannot go wrong, we can be wrong and none of us have a perfect theology, but our hearts will be right before the living God..........brother Frank


I thought I did speak the truth in love BUT if my words came off as unloving, I humbly apologize, I sincerely did not mean to offend anyone.

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/7/12 13:25Profile









 Re:

Sister you have nothing to apologize for.

 2011/7/12 15:27









 Re:

Lysa you wrote.......

"Also, I’m sorry you don’t recommend SI to anyone anymore"

Hmmmm, no, I did not write that sister. Please take the time to read what I actually wrote, thats a harmful statement to make. What I did say was that I rarely comment on SI anymore because of excatly what you were saying this thread was, contentious.......... brother Frank

 2011/7/12 16:09
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

To Martyr and Appolus.

I also wanted to emphasize that I too am greatly impacted by those who have suffered, and am very aware of their contribution to the body as well I am also very informed on the doctrines concerning suffering. I also am just as much concerned with "holding forth the word of life..." as Paul admonished us in Philippians.

I have been trying to think for a few days about a reconciling statement to merge your concerns and mine as well, and here is a shot at it.

Believers who have suffered physical persecution in the name of Christ have displayed the luminance of Christ in a unique way. The truth has often been verified in them in a way that many of us may never experience. However, this does not make the truth more true than it already objectively is, it does however tend to verify it in a radical way. I also would say though that there are many other ways beside the physical persecution in which taking up our cross manifests itself. There are many who have authority in the body whom we all greatly appreciate here who never suffered persecution because they suffered in other ways. They suffered tears of intercession, not enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season, subjecting all their life and time to the kingdom through faith in whatever measure they were given, and in many other ways. These also make them authoritative to me, not to mention the requisites for eldership found in the Pastoral Epistles.

I like what Art Katz said about it once, "Crisis reveals, and absolute crisis reveals absolutely." I suspect that I am one who at times reveals a major lack of authenticity under severe circumstantial shakings...I am in serious prayer about this myself lately. I long to suffer in the body for Christ, but when it comes to just suffering through the nominal grind of life, I fail so miserably. So I have no place to talk.

There are many people in the world who suffer for what they believe, and I think one of the greatest tragedies is the willingness to suffer for a lie. Could you imagine dieing a martyr's death for something that is not eternal in value...what a tragedy!

Please forgive my tangent on this post to the OP.


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/7/12 16:38Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: appolus

Quote:

"Also, I’m sorry you don’t recommend SI to anyone anymore"

Hmmmm, no, I did not write that sister. Please take the time to read what I actually wrote, thats a harmful statement to make. What I did say was that I rarely comment on SI anymore because of excatly what you were saying this thread was, contentious.......... brother Frank


Do you have no mercy for people who misread a statement of yours? I misread your last paragraph and for that, believe me, I am sorry.

PS: I never said this thread was contentious in any way, shape, or form.

God bless you, brother

Lisa (over and out!)


_________________
Lisa

 2011/7/12 18:48Profile





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