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 Re:

I doubt very seriously if the pretrib rapture myth figures into the shipping containers of Eritrea or the death camps of N. Koreea. If one could ask those believers who spill their blood for Jesus today. I have a friend who says that our theology is best forged in the fires of persecution. A reality that may soon happen on America. Excellent article by Corriie Ten Boon.

 2011/7/8 17:21
ThyKingCome
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Joined: 2011/4/19
Posts: 169
Southern CA

 Re:

I have always understood persecution to be when the world pours out its wrath on Christians because they love darkness rather than light. They hate us because they hate Christ. The Great Tribulation is when God pours out His wrath on a Christ-rejecting world. Although persecution is a type of tribulation promised to Chriatians by Christ Himself, it is different and distinct from the Wrath of God poured out on this world in the Great Tribulation.

What a precious gem of God was our dear sister. Thank you for posting.


_________________
Brother Kevin

 2011/7/8 18:40Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1595


 Re:

Hi Martyr,
Theology that is in the word of God can not be changed or forged by peoples opinions.Just because christians are dying and spilling their blood in these times is not evidence for a pre post or mid tribulation rapture.Whether or not persecution or tribulation comes to America does not prove that christians will be on earth or in heaven during the great tribulation.The myth could be easily said to be a post trib myth as a pre trib myth.
yours staff

 2011/7/10 9:21Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1595


 Re:

Hi Appolus,
I Agree testomonies of people who have gone through the fire are inspiring but the ultimate test of a teaching is that it lines up with scripture.Corrie had victory through her suffering but their is a big jump to say that proves that christians go through the great tribulation.It proves that christians can go through trials,persecutions and tribulations but not that we definitely go through the great tribulation,yours staff

 2011/7/10 9:30Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1595


 Re:

Hi Thykingcome,I would be more in line with what you believe."They did eat,the drank they married until the day" verses doesnt sound like a world in tribulation to me unless the tribulation of all the christians has no effect on the world. yours staff

 2011/7/10 9:37Profile
Areadymind
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Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

I would like to suggest for peoples consideration that Jesus Christ is the centrality of all of our theology and eschatology and ecclesiology, along with any other ology you can think of. If Hebrews 1:1-3 is to be believed, then Jesus is the absolute manifestation of God, and the fullest expression of what man is intended to be as well. He also is the fullest understanding of God's revelation toward man. If we use Jesus as our model for understanding whether or not theology is best developed under persecution or suffering, then we would only have seven statements concerning the deepest of Christian theology.

However, Jesus preached the greatest truths (not to devalue in any way what he said, or didn't say during his sufferings), not from the cross, but prior to it, and during that time he exemplified every effort to avoid suffering until his appointed time. I would like to kindly suggest that our eyes be taken off of church history and placed upon the person of Christ in order to calibrate every thing that we believe.

I love Ten Booms writings, but the notion that someone is more "theologically" correct because they have suffered is not really a biblical notion. Hebrews eleven shows a list of some who suffered and some who won victories unto glory. All were included, however, in the hall of faith, as we are so fond of calling it. We need to always be content in whatever state God has placed us in.


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2011/7/10 13:14Profile









 Re:

HI Staff,

I agree, that because someone suffers or is persecuted for the sake of Christ, does not alone prove that they have a better grasp of the Scriptures or that what they believe Scripture says is more reliable because of the tribulation in and of itself.

All I would say is, that a man or a woman who is willing to die for Christ and has proven that, would get my ear more than someone who has has lived in relative safety and has come to their conclusions in the comfort of the protections of political liberty.

You see, when your very life is on the line, and you see you relatives and loved ones dying all around you through persecution, you tend to take what the Lord has said a little more seriously. If Gods grace is sufficant for every situation, and it is, then those who are persectued, tortured and killed for the cause of Christ are bathed in the grace of God.( and we see this when saints would sing hymns even as they were being burned to death) Their dependancy level on God is greater than can even be imagined by those who have never suffered in such a fashion.

And so, on a subject such as pre-trib-rap, which is by no means a settled subject and can I suggest it never will be and further more is a non-essential issue, then Corrie and those of her ilk get my ear more. Because they have experienced a level of dependancy, a level of grace, a level of need that I have not. And the closer that we walk with the Lord, the more that we love HIs word. And the more that we love His word, the more that we devour it, because it has been discovered in reality, that our very lives depend upon the truth that we discover in the word and the personality of a living Jesus.

Finally, each much be fully persuaded in what he believes. The pre-trib-rap is a new doctrine born in the mind of Mr Darby in the 1820s and solidified by Scofield. Does it mean that since Christians for 1800 years never believed in such a notion that it is not true? No. What is true is that there is no serious scriptural evidence to support such a doctrine. The fact that sister Corrie and others did not believe in such a doctrine is just an influential aside. ..............brother Frank

 2011/7/10 13:33









 Re:

Indeed Jesus Christ is the source of our theology. Jesus spoke countless times in the gospels about his followers who would suffer persecution by picking up their cross to follow him. For the first few decades of the early church this was their testimony. Going into two thousand years of church history this has always been the testimony of the followers of Christ. Foxes Book of Martyrs, Martyrs Mirror, and other works document the testimonies of those who gave their lives for Jrsus. The story still goes on today. Go to the web sites of Voice of the Martyrs or any other persecuted ministry and read the stories. It is estimated over 150,000 precious souls were martyred last year. Various sources say Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the world. I would not suggest that the persecuted have a better theology , but I believe the persecited have a far better grasp of scripture that speak of suffering. Namely they live it out. Somehow I don't think a pretrib rapture fogures into their experience.

 2011/7/10 18:00









 Re:

One more thought about people who risk their lives for the Gospel or have had their lives on the line and how that gives them more legitimacy or not. Their arose a doctrinal problem in Acts which led to the Council in Jerusalem. Much weight would have been given to what Paul said. When it was over and the letter was sent out to the churches, listen to what the council says and see whom they trusted to send this letter.

" It seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabus and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Act 15:24)

If risking your life for Jesus Christ elevates one in importance in the Scriptures, should we not likewise recognize those who have risked and given their lives for the name of Jesus Christ and give more heed to those who have than those who have not? Just a thought......... brother Frank

 2011/7/11 0:38









 Re: Appolous

Amen my brother. It woukd seem those who have risked their lives for Christ deserve a greater hearing. Such can be said of Corrie Ten Boon, John Bunyon, or Richard Wormbrandt. The depth of their writings in the school of their sufferings does expose the shallowness of our American faith. As you say. Just a thought.

 2011/7/11 8:58





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