lylewise, I hear your heart and sympathize in many respects.

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Oracio

Oracio,

If a brother in the Church in Cypress has a message from the Lord and wants to give it, he is free to. He can call for a special gathering and everyone happily obliges. It doesn't matter if he takes 1 hour or 5 hours. There is freedom for anything like this. If you can make the gathering great, if not, someone will tell you about it.

Allaboard,

You are describing another planet, right? Surely such a church such as the one described in your story has not existed since the apostle Paul. It reads like something out of paradise. I have seen too much of American churches (and experienced too much of their abuse) to believe such a wonderful thing could ever happen here. No, i really cannot believe it.

Utopia, Mr.Darcey, WWF, Santa, and a key sent in the mail to a new car you have ust won yet never signed up for. Honestly, we have read the dream and find the premise desirable but the picture is faulty. Some may be blessed with good fellowships, but we are talking about real people and real people carry with them much that they hold onto. The very things that need to be pried from our hearts, hands, and minds. I would not dare send this to one challenged by persecution. Now I see what others see of those of us in America. This is the Americanized Christian dream. Someone posted a prayer request for a woman persecuted by her own husband and son. I read and thought to myself ,"this woman is being tested and refined by God". She may lose her very life but what joy to undergo such trial and be found true to our Lord. Then I think what a tragedy to live a comfortable life never undergoing the refiners hand. For I know that those He loves are being refined. Those who will lose their lives for Him will receive it back glorified and with eternity in His presence.

I think highly of the house church movement and it is most likely is a mighty move of God, but I know, even in that fellowship, everyone must contend with and overcome their flesh as they abide in Him daily. I know I desire this picture as much as any of my other brothers and sisters in Christ, but if I cannot adjust my sights to what is real as I look around me, and even in my own life, I will sideline myself for what will never come. I must roll up my sleeves never fearing getting dirty. I will continue to have faith and trust in Him and what He has decribed for those who follow Him in this life, and Utopia is most certainly not it.

lylwise, I think you hit the nail on the head in your last post regarding the OP. I thought much of the same when I read it but could not put it into words as you did so well.

For a few years I was very fond of the house church movement and sought to be part of it and promote it and I still think highly of much of what I see in it. Not too long ago I was sort of disillusioned regarding it. One reason for that is because it seemed no other Christians in my area wanted any part of it. I thought, "If house churches are the biggest thing God is currently really up to, why are there hardly any in this huge city of Long Beach(I only found one and they meet only on Wednesdays)? And why is it so hard for believers to receive this new thing? What if there are none in a given city? Are we to be loners hoping and praying that one will start in our area, or try to start one ourselves(which I tried but failed)?"

Another reason for my disillusionment had to do with the lives of many involved in the movement. I saw that many, including the leaders of it, were no different than many in the traditional churches. I did not see a sold out commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. I did not see a high level of self-denial, of taking up the cross, of hungering and thirsting after righteousness, of a heart and passion for the lost and getting the gospel out. I did not see anointed prophetic preaching of God's Word. I am not saying that there are no believers from the HC that have counted the cost of discipleship. I am just saying that from what I saw the vast majority are just as lukewarm as others in the traditional churches. And I am not saying that I a have arrived either because I know I have many shortcomings in the area of self-denial.

All that to say this, I realized what matters most.

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Oracio

This is no utopia. Lylwise says lots of true things and has a good grip on reality. You have to work at being united in the spirit and not breaking fellowship with brothers you disagree with.

On a recent men's retreat, there were very contentious discussions and once these were resolved there was sweet fellowship. But, it is also healthy to have vigorous debates as long as the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace is kept. But, definitely there are problems. Wherever there are people there are problems.

The difference is that they are just committed to doing all they can to give the Lord His rightful place in their midst and not try to takeover and make Jesus sit in the pew like everyone else. At times, flesh rises up, but because all the brothers have a voice, and have not surrendered their voice to 1 man or a few men, flesh does not get very far. This is a key point. They do not "lord" over each other.

If you think about it, it really is ridiculous to lord over others that have the Holy Spirit and hear God.

I have read almost the entirety of the book from which allaboard took the original post. What I am reading is impacting me in a very strong way. I was so blessed because recently I began to consider many of the points brought out in the book. I find the author of the book very well balanced and the book is written with what seems to be a very humble and honest spirit about it. There are some books on these topics that come across like the author has been so hurt and is so angry at traditional church that he has to find another way to do things. I do not sense that attitude in this book. I am being blessed and challenged.

I have always contended that the physical structure or system is not as important as the spirit of the work. I think I still maintain that stance, but I am seeing that the structure is much more important that I have realized it to be in the past. My heart yearns for something like this. I want to see the church in my city walking in unity, humility, and the power of the Holy Spirit. I long to see the church impacting the community in such a way that it turns things on their heads. I also realize how I have fallen so short in my own life of the standard of being the body of Christ.

I am blessed. I am challenged. Thank you allaboard for the post. I am also heartened. I do not think this a utopian panacea. I see it as a reality that we need to begin to live out in our own lives.

I do not think it very important whether or not we own buildings. There is always a need for some specific ministry that we cannot do in our modern culture without a building. Rescue missions, children's ministries to reach the unchurched children, etc. are all examples I can think of. But I do think it is vital that the church in the city becomes just that.

Thanks again for the post.

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Travis

Lord have mercy if we all think that this is the ideal church, the church that Jesus would build if we only let Him. Do you not see how men centred this entire little fable is? Who wouldn't want to become a Christian to be a part of this lovely group? Boating and water skiing? Isn't that wonderful! We can have it all and the Lord on top of it....It screams "Have your best life now!" out of every paragraph (except for the part in italics). This scenario will not happen here on earth as we walk on enemy territory and we are called to fight, we are called to suffer, we are called to sacrifice. We are to surrender all that we are and all that we have, yes to lay down our very lives for Jesus and let Him live His life in us. Jesus is gloryfied when all is against us and we still praise His holy name, not when we have it all. Where the main draw is having a good time and wonderful friends rather than the Lord in His glory and humble obedience to Him, I don't call it a church at all, it's not true Christianity.