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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Newsweek Calls Franklin Graham a "Bully"

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 Re:

I'm reading a biography on Spurgeon right now... and some of you would be surprised that while Spurgeon did not live in the lap of luxery he also was not hurting or living in poverty. Several times a year he took extended vacations as he loved to travel.

Which of you would point a finger of condemnation at Mr. Spurgeon... basically claiming that you are greater in the Kingdom than he? I dare say no one.

(...and Spurgeon would be the first to tell you he was the least in the Kingdom!)

Krispy

 2011/6/4 7:55
allaboard
Member



Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

Funny isn't it, how many of us are "bullys" in our own way.

 2011/6/4 8:55Profile









 Re:

Yes, usually when a believer declares the truth boldly and accurately the wordly accuse him/her of being a "bully". You are correct. :-)

The church and most of the Christians in it are too soft and afraid... and love the approval of men more than the truth of God.

Krispy

 2011/6/4 14:32
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

What has Franklin Graham for the sake of the Gospel? Preached to millions and has has often put food in the stomach of those same millions.

What has Keith Daniel done for the sake of the Gospel? Yell long strings of memorized Bible verses rather melodramatically.


Hmmmm.... not to beat up on Daniel and ignore Graham's faults. But seriously, Matthew 25.


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Jimmy H

 2011/6/4 15:50Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

And for perspective's sake, let us not forget that our Lord had an entourage of disciples who sometimes went ahead of Him into a city to prepare his arrangements. Jesus did not fetch his own donkey to enter into Jerusalem upon, and did not set the table at the Last Supper.

Oh yeah... and Jesus likely used the money He earned during His ministry to pay for the dinner of 12 men at a hotel/restaurant. He wasn't exactly a "low roller."


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Jimmy H

 2011/6/4 15:56Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
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 Re:

Deleted by poster.


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Sandra Miller

 2011/6/4 16:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Oh yeah... and Jesus likely used the money He earned during His ministry to pay for the dinner of 12 men at a hotel/restaurant. He wasn't exactly a "low roller."



chapter and verse please.

i seem to recall this verse:

And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head. Matthew 8 and 20.


or this:

For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 52:3-4

and you dare equate Jesus' earthly ministry with Frankie Graham's life of luxury, and then say that Jesus "used the money He earned"?!?


i dont know Jimmy, i just dont know....of course, you're right though, so.....hey bud, maybe after raking Oprah over the coals, you can do a hit job on ellen Degeneres, or paris Hilton, coz that stone feels good in the hand, right before you throw it, dont it?

 2011/6/4 19:47









 Re:

" He(Jesus) wasn't exactly a "low roller." .....sigh.

I have heard that line from so many prosperity teachers.....brother Frank

 2011/6/4 19:57
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

and you dare equate Jesus' earthly ministry with Frankie Graham's life of luxury, and then say that Jesus "used the money He earned"?!?



I'm not saying that Jesus and his disciples lived a luxurious life, and as comfortable as Graham does. But common, let's not harp on the brother as some have begun to do, and make a big stink out of it. But let the facts speak plainly for themselves. According to the gospels, Jesus received financial support from many individuals over the life of His ministry. He had a money box, from whom Judas was appointed as treasurer. He wasn't always walking on water, multiplying loaves, and pulling coins out of the mouths of a fish.

Over the course of 3 1/2 years of ministry, He and His disciples would've faced the challenge of feeding themselves, having clothing, shelter, and sometimes transportation (boats large enough to take 13 people across the sea, multiple times). Of course, sometimes they were honored guests at banquets, and people would've undoubtedly let them use some of the more "big ticket items."

But, this would have not always been the case day-to-day. Many times they would've had to go to the market, buy food, and other such practical things. Feeding 13 people daily, even on just the bare necessities, wouldn't have been cheap. Not to mention when they celebrated the Jewish feast days, such as Passover. Such would've been costly. And even if somebody else had provided things like the Passover for them... it would've cost that person considerable resources to throw a banquet for 13 people.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget that Jesus wore seamless clothing. And I don't know about you, but I've never owned a seamless garment. I imagine such would've been just as luxurious back then as it is now? Even if Jesus received it as a gift... it was a luxurious gift He didn't turn down.

My point in all this is, before we slam Franklin Graham for what he's doing, let's put this all in perspective. Jesus had a ministry that had a lot of cash flowing through it. He also would've had a lot of expenses. He often sent his entourage ahead of Him to make practical preparations. And he even had some luxurious items in His very possession.

Graham probably does over do it a bit. I don't follow him closely enough to really know. But I am just saying, before we harp on him for some of the things he does, let us consider that practically speaking, our Lord did some of the very same things. Maybe not to the extreme Graham does. But even if Graham does over do it a bit, I am pretty sure that contrasting him against the like of Keith Daniels is a bit out of place.

And not to knock Keith Daniel's ministry, but let's be serious, Franklin Graham has done a tremendous work. And so far as I've seen, he has done it extremely well, and has done it with a great deal of integrity. He has touched countless millions through his ministry, both spiritually and practically. And the operation he oversees is of such a caliber, that sometimes organizations like Samaritans Purse are the first on the scene when natural disasters shake our world. Sometimes they respond before the Red Cross and the Government. There is a tremendous amount of love from Christ flowing out of that organization.

Keith Daniel? What does he do in contrast? He preaches revival campaigns at small churches where most of the hearers are probably already saved. I'm not knocking that at all. Such is a great ministry. But when Graham goes somewhere to do ministry, he's doing something that will likely impact millions each time. So, if he wants to be able to get clearly from one part of town to another with minimal traffic, and sends scouts to figure out the best path, and decides to eat at some nice restaurants, I don't really see much of the problem in that. The scale of the work that the two are doing is quite different.

So, being that Graham is doing such a tremendous work, pardon me if I don't mind if the brother lives comfortably with some luxuries. Last I checked, Graham clears half a million a year overseeing Samaritans Purse and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Which of course, is a lot of money.

But considering some of you probably clear 60-100k+ a year, doing petty jobs that don't really make much of a difference in this world, forgive me if I think the criticisms being offered of Graham are a bit off. Franklin Graham has the responsibility and burden for overseeing two ministries and organizations that are actually making a real impact in the lives of countless untold millions every single year. So, making about 500k + perks, while seeming like a lot, is really small in comparison.

I'm not saying he should go as far as he does. I don't think I personally would. But, personally speaking, I don't begrudge the man. But regardless, to his own Master does he have to given an account. Not me.

*edited*


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Jimmy H

 2011/6/4 22:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Jesus received financial support from many individuals over the life of His ministry. He had a money box, from whom Judas was appointed as treasurer.



true...yes. amen.

just as aside, Frank Graham is a non factor in my walk with God, so i judge not the man. Some of these "10 shekel and a shirt priests" can play with their planes, and 18,000 sq foot mansions, matters not one mite to me, fore i know they cant take it with them, between them and the LORD....as for me, lust for wealth, or the pull to worship the golden calf, or to seek human acclaim is being burnt out my soul...if it even was there BEFORE.

a simple life is best, in my humble opinion..

Quote:
Over the course of 3 1/2 years of ministry, He and His disciples would've faced the challenge of feeding themselves, having clothing, shelter, and sometimes transportation (boats large enough to take 13 people across the sea, multiple times). Of course, sometimes they were honored guests at banquets, and people would've undoubtedly let them use some of the more "big ticket items."

But, this would have not always been the case day-to-day. Many times they would've had to go to the market, buy food, and other such practical things. Feeding 13 people daily, even on just the bare necessities, wouldn't have been cheap. Not to mention when they celebrated the Jewish feast days, such as Passover. Such would've been costly. And even if somebody else had provided things like the Passover for them... it would've cost that person considerable resources to throw a banquet for 13 people.



yes, undoubtably, but dare i say, and i think you'll agree, God provided. as He does for you and me.

may i share, something the LORD said to me in a conversation?

i had been blessed in certain matters regarding resource, blessed beyond belief....this was about six months ago, and i was sitting in a hidey hole, a basement stairwell, where i would met with the LORD, in that season. i was just praising and thanking Him, and then i asked the Master of the Universe a question, "Lord, why did it always seem that i was always ONE MEETING, or one step away from hitting 'the big time', y'know getting that 30, 40 million dollar payday that others in my profession sometimes earn? i'm not complaining God, i'm just wondering why?"

well, then God said to me, 'neily, don't you realize I love you?...and that I was protecting you from you? If I had given such sums, in your thirties, or early forties, you know you'd be dead, and I need you here".

Jimmy, i just worshipped Him at that point and the LORD God went onto say, "Havent I ALWAYS made sure you had that homer of manna every day, have I not always taken care of you?"

and i said thru tears of gladness and joy at this, "Yes Lord, You always have, and i thank You, i love You, i worship You, Abba, You are my Father".......and Jimmy, it was one of those moments, where the Reality of Moses speaking face to Face with God, as a man does with a friend, was so real and so clarified to me, that i drink of that Privledge of hearing from our Father. Where i KNEW, without a shadow of doubt, How He loves me. It was akin to a Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which in the final analysis is a Deeper Revelation of Jesus. i boast not in myself, if i boast, i boast IN the LORD.......He deigned to talk to me!!!

thanks for hearing that wee nugget.

Quote:
There is a tremendous amount of love from Christ flowing out of that organization.



Bless God! i am learning to depise nothing that God does thru His servants, nor adjudge a man or woman's ministry, who am i to do so, just broken bread, which is why i ask your forgiveness as i might have seemed sharp with you, past or present. i been thinking, pondering and praying what i wrote to you....been bothering me, last night, and this morning. i love you kiddo, loved you ever since i saw you get up and testify via the web at one of the conferences, your earnestness, your zeal, your love for Jesus. my only prayer is this: dont let man suck you into the "ten shekel and a shirt priesthood", dont let them suck you into the north american cookie cutter "pastor" mold...the 'professional pastor" trip, which on the surface is bright, well kempt, shiny and besuited, but underneath all that is the heart of a "vocation", waiting on a paycheck.

nothing wrong with a paycheck, but its a high wire act to be a servant, a doulos of Christ, true and authentic, and still play to the "rules and dictates" of a religious institution and/or denomination.

so just let me ask your forgiveness for any percieved harshness and lack of love...yes?

just one more thing, and its a trifle:

Quote:
Oh yeah, and let's not forget that Jesus wore seamless clothing. And I don't know about you, but I've never owned a seamless garment. I imagine such would've been just as luxurious back then as it is now? Even if Jesus received it as a gift... it was a luxurious gift He didn't turn down.



actually back in the day, linen was weaved on looms in solid bolts, sheets, and since there were no sewing machines, it was prudent to make one sew stitch, one long garment, and today, in the arab world, you can still see this one long robe, thin cotton or linen..also thats why indigo was such a high value item, as purple dye. trouble is, you cant buy such at Wally World, and they dont make 'em in China, far as i know.

i would love to have a long linen one piece garment, i have some bros stationed in the "sandbox", either wearing the uniform or "private contractors", and could get one, but Mercy, i'd look just plain ridiculous....which doesnt mean i wont get one, i just wouldnt wear it in town!

but you are right, ANY clean untorn garment in those days had great value, i doubt if regular folk in antique Israel had extensive wardrobes....only the Herods, and their lot.

God bless you this Lord's Day, neil





 2011/6/5 9:48





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