SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Newsweek Calls Franklin Graham a "Bully"

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Wow..wow..wow... there is so much sin in almost all of these comments. There needs to be a lot of repentance in this thread for the judgment being passed by people here.

If someone lives better than you: sin?!

Where does the bible teach that? Have you thought that the reason that the reason that Franklin Graham is treated the way that he is by other Christians is because other Christians want to bless him while he is in their country.

YOU SOUND LIKE JUDAS! Couldn't this money have been given to the poor?!

I've seen it happen, a lot of people in ministry accept the generosity of others because others are being blessed by giving it. I'm a support based missionary. Last year I lived in a major American city well below the poverty line. When someone does something nice for me, like treats me to a nice meal, there is a tinge of shame in it for me, until I remember that they are doing it to bless me and to glorify God.

Secondly, if we were encouraged in the bible never give money to ministers or ministries that had more money than us, then the widow would never have put her two pennies into the temple treasury. Did Jesus say, "WOAH, what a fool, doesn't she know how well the priests live! They eat beef every night when most everyone else is eating stale bread." Fortunately, that is not what Jesus said. The message is that we need to be faithful with what we have. If the rich man had brought 'all that he had' into the temple, Jesus would have said the same thing about him--it wasn't an issue of little vs. plenty. It was an issue of all or not all.

Franklin Graham has more money than you do. He has two houses. He also runs one of the most amazing relief organizations in the world, Samaritans Purse, and heads up the Billy Graham Evangelical Association (hey, I got a scholarship from them!) which helps to train thousands of people around the world to share the Gospel. Franklin Graham is extremely busy, he is in the public eye, and he is doing an incredible amount of good in the world, all while maintaining a a commitment to lifting up the name of Jesus even when it is unpopular.

CEO's of major organizations (like the ones that lead to the economic crisis we were recently in) take home huge salaries, the likes of which none of us could ever imagine... they get these salaries because they are supposed to be valuable. Most of the time they are not. I am a full-time Christian worker, I depend on the Body of Christ to pay my bills every month, and I am not envious of Franklin Graham's prosperity, I don't see it as some of you do as a sin. Why? Because I don't envy the shoes that Franklin has to fill--and which he has filled incredibly well. He is not his father, and I think he has found his own way to be a Graham, while still glorifying God.

It is not a sin to be rich, it is a sin to be in love with your riches. On the other hand, I am glad that someone who is serving God so faithfully is able to live with some comforts--remember, Paul said that he had learned to live with plenty, and with nothing, and the importance is contentment. IT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF YOU ARE NOT CONTENT. You are judging Franklin because this is a sin in your life that you need to lay at the foot of the cross.

I honestly think that all people in full-time Christian ministry should be able to live comfortable lives. But I also know that less than 2% of the money taken in by churches around the country goes to World Missions... and that means full time missionaries like myself. Instead of getting angry at the money being spent on Franklin Graham, get angry at the money being spent on buildings that will be empty in a generation. Franklin Graham is on our side, be happy about the blessings he has received and get rid of your critical spirit.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2011/6/2 23:02Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:
Wow..wow..wow... there is so much sin in almost all of these comments. There needs to be a lot of repentance in this thread for the judgment being passed by people here.




Good post brother Smith,

So true brother about passing judgment. The last time I checked the Word the accuser of the brethren is Satan. He is always looking for someone to join him.

 2011/6/2 23:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
But what did Jesus say? If you give a person a cup of water in his name, he will be noticed by God. Have you tried this in your work, to share in the littlest things, the seemingly most insignificant ways



But it is nonetheless true, ginnyrose, that i should not be expected to nor should i give to people who are richer than me. Why should they be relieved and I burdened, as even the apostle Paul noted. Today pastors own nice homes, own (nicer) cars (than my rustbucket), have YMCA or athletic club memberships, play golf at golf clubs, and are putting their kids through college. I have never felt inspired to give to this sort of church. The pastor should go out and get a real job if he needs money beyond what it takes to survive. Otherwise he is just a welfare case.

 2011/6/3 1:53









 Re:

Quote:
If someone lives better than you: sin?!



NO, that is not the sin. The sin is when someone richer takes money from someone who is poor. The sin is also in using money intended for ministry to live in luxury.

The scriptures also say that we ARE to judge those INSIDE the church, and to drive out the wicked from among us.

Quote:
YOU SOUND LIKE JUDAS! Couldn't this money have been given to the poor?!



You are a bit confused here, iansmith. The scripture states that all the other disciples joined in with Judas asking the same question; this was not asked only by Judas. And the thing about Judas was that he was being a hypocrite in saying it because he was stealing from the collection plate the whole time. THAT is what made him so wicked in asking it.

 2011/6/3 1:55









 Re:

I have held my tongue on this one for close to a week, but this needs to be said.

Since when do we take the word of Newsweek magazine? The secular media has done everything in it's power to discredit and malign Christians at every turn. Sometimes they get it right, but generally they do not.

You, as believers, have an obligation to give the benefit of the doubt to a brother when smeared in the secular media which has proven over and over again that it's hostile to the gospel and those who present it boldly.

And then... people on SI begin to tell stories about Franklin. Stories that may be true, but can not be proven.

Instead, on this particular thread, believers propogate something that they do not know to be true... and basically yell "Crucify him!!" about Franklin Graham. Talk about a herd mentality... wow.

I agree 100% with Ian. Some of you folks should be ashamed of your behavior, your gossip, and your pharisee like attitudes.

It was said by several "I'm tired of being hurt and burned by Christian leaders."

First of all, please stop whining.

Secondly, if you are hurt or disappointed in Christian leaders then guess who's fault it is? YOURS. Why? Because obviously you put your eyes upon and your faith in MEN... and not God. Men will always disappoint, get over it. It's a fact of life. God is the only one who will never disappoint His children.

If you're disappointed then you have the wrong expectations.

Even if all of this is true about Franklin Graham (and I have my doubts), so what? What does it have to do with me? Stop being busybodies and do what God has called YOU to do...

As for the Grahams, I actually live less than 30 minutes from where Billy Graham lives. Two of our children were born in the same hospital in Asheville NC where they take Billy everytime he gets sick... Mission Hospital. I will tell you all something, if you think they are living in the lap of luxery you have been lied to. They live very modestly.

Billy and Franklin live on a "fixed income", which means their salary does not increase just because more money has come into the ministry. Thats the way it has been in that ministry from the 1950's, and that information is out there for anyone who wants to take the time to investigate it.

Do I agree with everything the Grahams do or teach? Nope. Sure dont... but I can not sit by and read the utter foolishness on this thread and not say anything.

I apologize if this offends anyone, but frankly... some of you need to be offended.

Krispy

** Also intersting to note that this gossipy thread has waaaay more hits on it than any other thread since this was posted... I think that says it all right there concering the heart of many (most) people in this forum. Some repenting needs to happen. **

 2011/6/3 7:53
ManofGod0000
Member



Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191


 Re:

I dont know if he is a bully, but some of his comments about the president needs to be checked.

As an example or supposed leader of the christian faith/ world, he should be mindful of what he says about certain things. It is not that he cant express himself, but some of his comments are useless, they dont provide help or a solution.

But it is god's job to straighten this man out

 2011/6/3 9:46Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
NO, that is not the sin. The sin is when someone richer takes money from someone who is poor. The sin is also in using money intended for ministry to live in luxury. The scriptures also say that we ARE to judge those INSIDE the church, and to drive out the wicked from among us.


When you say the Bible says to drive out the wicked from among us? Are you calling Franklin Graham wicked now?

IanSmith and Krispy and any other man who has called this thread and your silly opinions sin.... it would behoove you to stop ignoring their Godly advice and heed it AND repent and any other person who is gossiping. I beg of you in the name of Jesus.

Sister Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2011/6/3 10:16Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:
I have held my tongue on this one for close to a week, but this needs to be said.



Thanks brother!

BTY I didn't get to post on your coming back thread but it is great to see you back posting again and for all that God is doing in your life.

I pray that he supplies all your need according to His riches in glory through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessings to you!




 2011/6/3 10:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I apologize if this offends anyone, but frankly... some of you need to be offended.

This is a true saying.

In order to realize our folly we need to somehow fall down prostrate to look up that it is God who judges not man.

When we judge another man we are in actuality saying that we have reached perfection and are eligible to pass condemnation on anyone that doesn't agree with our philosophy.

The sooner we get into our minds that God would rather have us love our neighbour (that means to do good to him, not talk about him, not run him down) the better we can love and nurture one another. There shouldn't be any "if ands or buts" on this one, if there is, then the one posting who argues against this is the one needing correction.

From this post on, we should be careful how we post because we are being marked by all that read us, whether we be as a trouble maker amongst the body of believers or one who encourages and admonishes.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

If people believe that Mr Franklin Graham is not walking in truth, we should be more sorrowful of heart more than anything.

Lets be quick to listen and slow in typing.

Since I am not above anyone here, I am speaking to myself as well.



 2011/6/3 11:13
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Quote:
Why should they be relieved and I burdened, as even the apostle Paul noted. Today pastors own nice homes, own (nicer) cars (than my rustbucket), have YMCA or athletic club memberships, play golf at golf clubs, and are putting their kids through college. I have never felt inspired to give to this sort of church. The pastor should go out and get a real job if he needs money beyond what it takes to survive. Otherwise he is just a welfare case.



CyAn, please consider what you are saying... you are saying that full-time Christian workers SHOULD live in poverty, that this is the only way to be holy. Don't you realize that this is not what the bible teaches?

There is a place in Christian history where this teaching is prominent, and that is in the monastic tradition--monks and nuns often had to take vows of celibacy, poverty and absolute obedience. But these were often legalistically enforced upon people. The Protestant reformation took these ideas by the horns and wrestled them to the ground.

Martin Luther was a monk, he had taken these vows. After leaving the Roman Catholic church and working as a catalyst for the Protestant Reformation Martin Luther was accused of breaking his vows. He broke his vow of absolute obedience to the pope, he broke his vow of poverty by taking the patronage of Grermanic princes, and he broke his vow of chastity by getting married to former nun. Ultimately he married and started his new family, living in the renovated monastery where he had previously been a monk--now converted into a family home.

Within the Protestant tradition we support our full time Christian leaders. Do not muzzle out an ox as it treads the grain. Paul said it was the RIGHT of all Christian leaders to receive a living from their services, and to have believing wives. He chose not to exercise this right, but all of the other twelve Apostles seemed to have felt comfortable receiving these blessings from the church. Paul gives us the indication that only he and Silas remained single, and that he had even received the support of the church at numerous times, and individual patrons at others--he was not a tent-maker all the time!

God calls you to be faithful with what you have. You should be giving, especially to your local congregation. If you are not faithful with the little that you have, you will never be faithful if God blesses you with plenty.

I am a support based missionary, and one of the most difficult things for me to do every month is to give my tithe (not a strict 10%), but it has also been one of the areas where God has blessed me the most. At first I rationalized, I told myself that I worked full time in ministry, and if anyone needed the money it was me--I mean, people had given the money to me so that I could do the work of the Lord. But then I was convicted of my faithlessness. I realized it was unbelief that caused me to resist giving a tithe regularly. I didn't trust that God could provide enough for me to tithe and to live on. There have been a couple of months when I have only received a couple hundred dollars, even though my expenses per month are nearly a thousand dollars! But I took the step of faith, and God hasn't failed me!

God has abundantly provided for me in order for me to tithe. When I see someone in need, I know that what I have is not my own. Now writing that check has become a blessing, it reminds me of my dependence on God and his faithfulness to me. I am now experiencing the promises of God in this area of my life in a way that I have never been able to before.

I don't give much, but it hurts every month--it is out of that hurt that God has blessed me. If it didn't hurt, something would be wrong.

My pastor and the leader of the mission team here in Chicago has a wife and three children who are home-schooled. His wife stays at home with the children and helps to support the numerous ministries we are involved in. They have a modest home, he has a newer SUV, and a couple of times a year they go on family vacations. But I also know that they make huge sacrifices, and more than deserve the few blessings which the Lord has provided for them. I am frankly happy to give to my pastor (who is in a better financial situation than me) because I know that it is the will of the Lord. I want him to be able to give good things to his wife and children, I want him to be able to relax and occasionally have leisure. He dies daily for the sake of the nuermous churches that he has planted and continues to pour himself into as a servant of Jesus, and lives much more sacrificially than many.

My pastor is not the exception--I know many Godly men and women who live sacrificial lives. I don't want them to live in poverty. In fact, I mourn that I am not able to give to all of them. There are friends of mine on the mission field that I wish I could give to, there are needs that I see on a regular basis that I would like to give more to. I have to be faithful to give to my local church first, then missions (although your local church should be giving to that) then to serve others.

Right now I am praying about whether I can afford a gym membership. I need to lose about 50lbs, and I want to be more healthy in order to be a better servant of the Lord. Do you think its sinful that I would even consider spending some of the money that I receive on a gym membership?

Should I just get a real job? Is working as a full time minister not legitimate? Should I live in a dumpster and eat trash--that would certainly make my financial needs much cheaper.

I am driving a twelve year old car, I often have to rely on the generosity of others to pay for maintenance. I rent a room in a boarding house for four hundred dollars a month. I have a pre-paid cell-phone plan and a five year old cell phone, I bought my computer in 2008 (back when I had a 'real job'!), earlier this year I dropped the collision coverages on my car because I couldn't afford them... this was a real hard choice to make considering that I often use my car to give driving lessons to refugees and international students as well as taking refugees to doctor's appointments, shopping, to visit Social Security and the Dept of Health Services. I use my car to pick up youth kids for bible study and sunday school three or four times a week, I drive people to and from church.

But you know what, my life is incredibly blessed by the Lord, and I wouldn't trade it for a 'comfortable life' with a steady income, a wife, children and a mortgage in the suburbs if it meant forsaking the call on my live to missions. It would be great if I could have all of these things (except the mortgage) and still be faithful to this call, I know many missionaries and full-time Christian workers who have been blessed to be able to have many of these things, and I feel that it is their right, and we should be happy for them!


_________________
Ian Smith

 2011/6/3 16:08Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy