Also,does your eschatological understanding give any/much attention to the middle east,specifically the land of Israel and the ethnic Jewish people
_________________Jimmy H
And it is my thesis that the Harold Campings of American Evangelicalism are but a symptom of a much deeper problem with the way we approach the Scriptures, and do theology. And while we are busy going after the speck in Campings' eye, we fail to notice the beam in our own. Many hypocritically attack him for this reproach and shame he has brought on the body of Christ, without realizing they aren't too far removed from doing the very same thing. Harold Camping is treated as a heretic because he openly declared a date about the rapture of the church. Yet American Evangelicals by in large hold to the bogus idea of a pre-tribulational rapture of the Church, and espouse the very system and ethos Harold Camping operates on... they just don't pinpoint dates. But every hiccup in the middle east is viewed as a sure sign that Jesus could come tomorrow. So, instead of removing the speck from Harold Campings' eye, let us remove the beam from our own.
All I will say is- this is a mighty low blow from a professing Christian to others in the body of Christ. I can't see how Jesus is pleased with this comment.Let's not bring hurt and accusations to others who may have another theological point of view.
And we might need to consider God is attempting to show us where we've missed the mark by individuals such as this, who frankly, are only one step removed from the very same point of view.
There is a great part of me that really wished Harold was right, I would much rather be with Christ in Glory than working right now. ;)
_________________Matthew Guldner
Many hypocritically attack him for this reproach and shame he has brought on the body of Christ, without realizing they aren't too far removed from doing the very same thing. Harold Camping is treated as a heretic because he openly declared a date about the rapture of the church. Yet American Evangelicals by in large hold to the bogus idea of a pre-tribulational rapture of the Church, and espouse the very system and ethos Harold Camping operates on... they just don't pinpoint dates. But every hiccup in the middle east is viewed as a sure sign that Jesus could come tomorrow. So, instead of removing the speck from Harold Campings' eye, let us remove the beam from our own.
One also might could say that your theology could be one step removed from Camping's point of view when you proudly say that Christ cant come back before the tribulation.
Harold Camping has long been a heretic for far more serious reasons than simply declaring a date (false prophecies). His false doctrine runs deeper than stuff like this.
You call me a hypocrite because I express my disgust at him bringing more shame on Christ, but it sounds more and more like you simply want to defend him.
As for me, I do NOT believe in any pre-trib rapture of the church, etc.;
i am not a pentacostal.
What i believe in is the Holy Bible and no scripture is open to any private interpretation.
I have always felt that dogmatism and predictive prophecy are a dangerous mix. Some denominations are so pre-trib that they will not tolerate other views. Yet, during the 60's and 70's the belief was used as a scare tactic to both get sinners saved and keep believers holy. I remember as a 9 year old child living in fear that the Lord would come and leave me behind. It was the opposite of I Thess 4:18, "Therefore comfort one another with these words." From a historical point of view I often point to the fact that the Jews had a good idea of the 'when' of Christ's first coming, but were in doubt about the 'what'. They filled in the blanks with all of their own Messianic concepts and most ended up missing their day of visitation. They became so dogmatic in asserting their own subjective prejudices and desires, that they were blind to reality. It is one of the most sobering things I know of. They so wanted Jesus to do what they wanted Him to do that they refused to recognize Christ. Rather than change their theology- they changed their 'man' and ultimately followed Bar Kochba to their own ruin. Yet, what will we do with the 'blanks'__________? How will we fill them in? With concepts that are tailored to our own will? With ideas that cast us in the best construction? With notions that help us scare people in evangelism and comfort ourselves from persecution? These are the hard, soul-searching questions I have asked myself over the years. We have to identify the areas of our heart that are 'our will' and ask God to give grace to set those aside as we study and pray for revelation to come. We are all subjective in our reasonings (whether we realize it or not), because we are moving in influences and beliefs that exist in our minds and hearts undetected; but we can proceed safely if we can identify our prejudices. As for this man that was mistaken I think of a quote by Arminius: First, it is very difficult to discover truth and avoid error; second, people who err are more likely to beignorant than malicious; third, those who err maybe among the elect; and fourth, it is possible that we ourselves are in error. When a person makes a mistake in predictive prophecy there is a danger of being labeled a false-prophet or heretic. This is why I would caution against being dogmatic. What happens if when one view is affirmed and the other is shown false- would we be prepared to label those that were wrong as 'false-prophets' because they falsely interpreted prophesy? This man had a formula he used (if the press is to be believed he took Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth and 2 Peter 3:8 With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day, and concluded that May 21, 2011 is 7000 years after the Great Flood 4990 B.C., concluding that it indeed is the Doomsday. 4990 + 2011 1 = 7000 (the subtraction of 1″ is necessary because year 1 B.C. is followed by 1 A.D., skipping year 0)). Inductive reasoning led this man to conclude yesterday would be it, but obviously there are more variables than he took into account. ;-)
_________________Robert Wurtz II
Inductive reasoning led this man to conclude yesterday would be it, but obviously there are more variables than he took into account. ;-)