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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Obama says Palestine must be based in 1967 borders

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 2011/5/20 14:07

Joined: 2009/12/8
Posts: 1795


Thank you so much for this brother Frank. On a day when it is most appropriate to watch and listen. Our prayers for Israel should intensify. The Lord reminded me He is still on the Throne, still in control and He will glorify Himself in a magnitude like never before. Glory to God. And keep us in prayer Holy Spirit.

 2011/5/20 15:22Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257



Here are a few scriptures:

Psalms 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Isaiah 62:6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
Isaiah 62:7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

God will make Jerusalem a praise in the earth but the true Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, will be reigning and it will be in the new Jerusalem. Many woes and many also will mourn before all this takes place.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Let us all pray that Israel will turn to Christ because he is the true peace of Israel (He is the prince of Peace). Let us pray that no matter what they have to go through that they (all Israel will be saved that are the true Israel) will accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

Finally let us realize that our redemption should be desired above everything and that when we begin to see bible prophecy coming to pass don’t get discouraged but look up to our deliverer and lift up your head for our redemption is drawing near.

Blessings to all!

 2011/5/20 15:45Profile

 Re: Obama says Palestine must be based in 1967 borders

If we're familiar with all of the UN's Declaration and Resolutions involving Israel from the 1940's until now and also quotes from The Quartet and other documents that go back before our present 'president' we may see something Biblical happening.

We had the 'Roadmap' under Bush - but even that wasn't from Bush, but just the same resolutions that were written when Israel was renamed Israel and since by the same source.

To be frank, neither Bush nor Obama has had anything to say about anything. They said or say what they were told to say.

I believe, from all that I've read, that Clinton was probably the last President that we've had that didn't 'need' to be told what to say - because he's on the same page/agenda as the UN has been since his early college days or earlier, if we read his background.

The talk of Bush and Obama having inserts in their ears and are being told what to say is not really 'that' far-fetched and that they would choose Obama because of his color to eventually cause even more racial hatred - as a fall guy as well, is not that far-fetched neither - because the nwo elite hate black people and as far as him "being a puppet" - if I had the time online, that could basically be proved - both in Bush's case and in Obama's.
Bush was used to turn the world against Christians. Obama will be to turn US against black people.
One may believe that we still have free elections, but - again, that's up to the research done.

The evidence is out there, of who is truly making these decisions based upon decisions made as far back as one could go.

All the eyes of the-powers-that-be have been on Jerusalem, from the day that GOD made that city His Own.

We have to remember that GOD told us about the "days of Jacob's troubles" which are to come and if we lose sight of what The LORD wrote of those troubles that are yet to come to Israel, we may be quite confused and lose faith in the days ahead.

GOD will fulfill EVERY promise to the land of Israel AT HIS Coming as well.

Art Katz always taught that we need to be there for the Jewish people as persecution begins, just as Corrie Ten Boom was - but I sort of think that when that day comes - we'll be persecuted as well - or maybe even before, so that the plan of these global-rulers and the rich men of the earth for Jerusalem will not be hampered by us. Just some of my thoughts. We can pray, but need to have The Word of GOD wide open on His prophecies of what will happen to Israel before it's all over because to be forewarned is to be emotionally and spiritually forearmed. The day of Jacob's troubles is written and our troubles as well.

 2011/5/20 16:02

 A heavy stone....

It is almost surreal to me when I see events like these unfold. What we are witnessing is the world, ALL of the World, becoming drunk over Jerusalem. It is happening as clear as day; as it must.

Abraham, the Father of Faith, was given manifold Promises from the lips of God himself, that cannot lie. His Grandson, Jacob, was confronted directly by the God of God's, Jahweh, in a wrestling match...weakened in a dependent way, and blessed beyond understanding....becoming Israel.

Israel, and his sons, the father of the tribes, were given the inheritance...the dwelling place of God upon the Earth. Out of this royal bloodline came God Himself as a man. Jesus was a Jew.

One thing we must remember, as believers, is that God is orchestrating these events and conflicts. The devil is not controlling these events....even the coming persecution in the Great Tribulation period, and martyrdom for multitudes, I believe is ordained by a witness...a statement of His worthiness, and Right-ness.

The prophecy below SHALL come to pass....and Israel will be saved, and delivered on that day, when Jesus returns. Israel will be given great grace, to be broken, and repent, and receive Jeshua as who He is.....the same One who spoke through all of the prophets, and stood in the glory in the Pillar of Shekinah at the victory over Egypt and Pharaoh.

At this time we[ the gentile grafted ones...[ Neil is right...we are grafted in..] will be one...and at this time the great reunion will occur....from brother Adam and sister Eve...and every one of the old world's holy seed will arrive, and that great feast....."THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB!"


It is as sure as can be to happen...and it is beginning. "Rejoice, for your redemption draws near!".BT.

Zechariah 12
[The Coming Deliverance of Judah]
1 The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

2 “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkenness to all the surrounding peoples, when they lay siege against Judah and Jerusalem.

3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.

4 In that day,” says the LORD, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the LORD of hosts, their God.’

6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place—Jerusalem.

7 “The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah.

8 In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them.

9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Mourning for the Pierced One

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;

13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves;

14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves."

In a nutshell....If you oppose and reject Israel as being ordained by God to prosper, and reject God Himself. The proof is all over the Holy word.

 2011/5/20 16:22

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317

 Re: A heavy stone....

No worries folks, nothing to see here, I just checked with God a few seconds ago, and he assured me he was still in control, and told me to carry on soldier.


 2011/5/20 16:28Profile

Joined: 2009/12/8
Posts: 1795


Amen! I admit at first it kind of shook me up but like you, I heard the Lord say the same thing. He knows what is going on, He is on the Throne, He is in control and He knows how to glorify Himself. Fear not and carry on. Good word! Glory to God!!!

 2011/5/20 16:45Profile

 Re: A heavy stone....

Thank you Brother Tom, MJ, Everest, and all,

God bless you all. i'm so so sorry about some of my words in a prior post, precisely when i wrote, "your forefathers".......

that was wrong, my anger and righteous fury, like a burning flame, is tamped down, for it is God the Holy Spirit ministered to me, Bless the Name of Messiah Jesus.

It was not hard for me, thank God for His Mercy, to apprehend Messiah Jesus, because not only was my father Gentile (though i was raised up, joyfully, in the synagogue) but as a wee child, my mother frequently took me to African-American AME Churches, which was joy to me, as i had never seen anything like this, the singing, the Joy in the Lord, the sisters, big black women, getting filled with the Holy Ghost, and running the aisles praising the Name!

i was so thrilled and filled, just being there, because it was all so different from the staid Friday night Shabbat services at synagogue.

i was very precocious as a lad, reading newspapers when i was five, so in May 1967, when i was seven, we all KNEW what Nasser, and Egypt was planning to do, try and destroy Israel, the rest as you know, is history. In this month of month of may 67, it was time of fear and terror in the synagogue, nobody knew what was going to happen.

Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on all three adversaries, and this was the Six Day War. Right prior to the war, a young singer, Shuli Nathan wrote a song, Yerushaliyim Shel Zahav, (Jerusalem the Golden)this was the song that sung at the Wall, we were all singing this song. as a young boy, i vowed to myself, "someday i go back and live in Israel"...which i never did in the flesh, something that rips at me to this very day, but i know that It is God that measures my steps.

this is that song, with subtitles:

i pray it blesses you all.

then the arabs launched the Yom Kippur War, Golda knew the attack was coming, but thought the world would not tolerate another pre-emptive attack and decided to absorb the blow, which was heavy. From her command post at Dimona, where Israel crafted nuclear weaponry, it got so bad, she called Nixon and said, "if you dont re-supply us with weapons, tanks we are losing, i will give the command to obliterate the arab capitals. President Nixon re-supplied, who rallied, by the hand of God, and thru the leadership of general Ariel Sharon, made a brilliant manuvuer, came up around the Eygyptian 3rd Army, which had failed to press the attack, and Sharon crossed the Suez and completely surrounded the Egyptian's. It was at that point, the Russians said "enough"...we actually came very close to nuclear armegedon, as the President leaned heavily upon Golda. i'm glad she was wise enough to relent. But the egyptian army, surrounded, spent a few weeks in this de-facto Sinai "prison camp", courtesy of the IDF, while cease fire negotiations went on.

in the first days of the 73 War, it did look like Israel was defeated, and i was terrified. Stupid lad that i was, 13, i begged and pleaded with my mother to let me go over, i wanted to fight...serious, in my heart, i knew they would never let me, but at the least, i wanted to serve in a medical unit. Of course, she said "no", so i spent all my evenings on the corner of Oak and Rush street in chicago with a Mogen David Adom can, the Israeli red Cross, and collected SO much money, which i lovingly brought back to the synagogue, to be sent to Israel.

here is a small clip of Golda speaking, i dearly loved that woman, my grandmother, who had raised me, and had just died, could have been her twin, so there was that element, as i was so lost and grief stricken, that i had put the two together, Israel and my lost grandmother, even now, so many years as i type this, i cry, its 5 in the morning.

as i said to Brother Tom in another post, i leave the City for good, as God has blessed me, by giving me a small farm up north, i've waited 44 years for this day, as i go into the land, please pray for me, your brother, that i may be salt and Light among the Peoples, Amish, hippies, farmers and friends yet to be made.

i love you all with the Love of Christ, please forgive me of my many sins in my words, neil

 2011/5/21 5:56

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


as i go into the land, please pray for me, your brother, that i may be salt and Light among the Peoples, Amish, hippies, farmers and friends yet to be made.

Zechariah 8:23

"Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you." ' "

What an awesome promise! Get ready Neil! :)

 2011/5/21 10:40Profile


Woe to them that divide the Land of Israel

As the founder of "America and Israel in Bible Prophecy" I would like to say the following: I have not posted this as a political statement but rather out of a Religious concern. The Bible clearly tells us that if would we bless Israel that we will be blessed, and that if we curse Israel we will be cursed. It is very important for us to pray that President Obama and his administration will wake up to the truth.

I am not sure what the future holds for us during this Presidential Term but I am sure of this one thing. Eventually America will stand with Israel at the time that it is going to count the most. There is so much ignorance in the leadership of our nation, not just one party but both. They have lost sight of God and the meaningful things that are important for the survival of our nation. They have lost sight of what the founders told us. The most important thing that they have forgotten is that our liberties come from the creator not from man. As long as they believe that men are the writers of liberty we are in trouble. But I believe that there will eventually be a wake up in America. God used men to help re-establish Israel in her land and God will use men to perform his will in the future. An interesting note is that men helped Israel re-establish themselves because they knew that God wanted it to happen. We can do the same as God leads us to do his will.
Tommie Spurgeon

There are many Christians that have heard people say that the Bible says "Woe to them that divide the land of Israel". Obama and Netanyahu met last year to discuss the making of two states, one for Israel the other Palestine it causes a lot of worry. Especially when it comes to anything that might bring danger to us that are living in the United States. I believe that America should always stand with Israel against her enemies, but I do not believe that what President Obama and Netanyahu is placing our nation in some sort of danger. It is scripture that gives the warning so we need to understand what they are saying. There is no such scripture in the Bible that says "Woe to them that divide land", but there is one that could be mis-applied and said to mean that.

The scripture that I am referring to is taken from Joel 3:1-2. It is a warning of the coming doom and destruction of someone in particular that will divide the land of Israel. You can read numerous websites and blogs crying out "woe to them that divide my land" with various views of this thought. It is commonly believed that if anyone negotiates a division of the land in Israel it will bring destruction on those that do so. The following scripture is the reality of this meaning and it has to be rightly divided.

Joel 3: 1: For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2: I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

According to Strong’s concordance the word Jehoshaphat means; "Jehovah has judged". The 'valley of Jehoshaphat' is to be understood as a general term for the place or part of the world for God's final judgment on those enemies of Israel." The Key to understanding the scriptures in Joel 3:1-2 is to actually read what it says.

It will be a judgement of God on the nations that have done certain things to Israel.
It will be in the last days when God comes to bring the final deliverance to Israel and the city of Jerusalem.
It will be a judgement on those that have scattered Israel into the nations.
It will be a judgement upon those that have parted or divided the land of Israel.
So we must keep these things in mind when we pronounce this terrible woe upon those that are involved in attempting to negotiate a peace in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine. Is this what they are doing? It is very important for you to know that I do not believe that giving away part of Israel to the Palestinians is going to bring any kind of peace. To give away Jerusalem would be catastrophic. I hate the thought of it. You see the radical Muslims in that part of the world does not want there to be peace between the Palestinians and Israel. If Israel gives away this land it will not do any good. The war to drive Israel out of that part of the world will continue because it is the goal of the Islamic people. So negotiating land to the Palestinians is not going to bring peace to Israel or Palestine.

I personally do not believe that God is going to punish the leaders of America and Israel for seeking a peaceful solution to the continued turmoil that goes on in that part of the world. The reason I do not believe this is based on the meaning of the scriptures in Joel 3:1-2 and what Daniel says in the 11th Chapter. I believe that this punishment and judgement will fall on the Antichrist and his nations at the time of Armageddon and this is why.

Daniel 11:39: Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

Notice that this verse says that the Antichrist "shall divide the land for gain." There is only one person in Bible prophecy that fits all the criteria of the four points that the scripture points to in Joel 3:1-2. When the Antichrist invades Israel at the middle of the Tribulation Israel will be overpowered and forced to run for their lives. In Joel it says scattered into the nations. They must flee or be killed. For just a short period of time right after the Antichrist takes over Israel he will divide the land among the Palestinians and some key supporters of his. This he will do to appear to rest of the Muslim nations that he is fulfilling all the prophecies that they have of him as the Mahdi or messiah to come. This will be short lived because the United States and her allies will invade Israel and drive him all the way back to the river Euphrates in Iraq. There, at that time, world war three will erupt. Finally at the end of this period the Antichrist will be enforced by kings from the east that will help him drive the US and her allies all the way back to the city of Jerusalem. It will be at that time that Joel 3:1-2 will take place when Jesus Christ himself comes to fulfill these scriptures and punish these wicked people for driving Israel from their land and dividing the land among themselves.

About Obama

I know that since Barack Hussein Obama became our President that there has been some surprising decisions that he has made and said. I have been totally surprised over some of the things that he has done as well as everyone else. I know that there are some folks that believe that Obama could possibly be the Antichrist. Obama is not the Antichrist because there is nothing about him that places him in Bible prophecy. Up front I would like to say that I am glad that he is trying to help bring peace to the Middle East but I do not approve of the method that he is using.

Recently in his speech in Cairo Egypt, Obama said that he was a Christian and he said this in front of a very large group of Muslims. In fact he was speaking this to the whole Muslim world. It takes a lot of courage to do this in front of thousands of Muslims that do not particularly care about Christians. But it is sad to know that he isn’t a real Christian because of a number of things that he has said. For one he doesn’t believe that a person has to be born again to be a Christian and go to heaven. He believes that if you are a good person that you can make it on your own merit. He said that his mother wasn’t a Christian but he is sure that she made it to heaven because she was a good person. So I am not assuming anything that isn’t obvious. He confesses to be a Christian but has never been born again himself. He confesses Jesus but doesn’t know him. However I believe that the guy believes the things that he is doing is right. I was glad when he clearly placed the killing of those that were killed in the Twin Towers as being the responsibility of Muslim terrorists. He also brought up the point that those that were killed were innocent people who had not done anything to them to deserve it.

There has been a lot of fear because of his views in trying to bring about change to the World and America. I sometimes cringe when I hear about something new that he has introduced or is in the process of doing. Many Christians fear that he is going to do something that is going to bring the judgement of God upon America. One of these things is that he and Netanyahu are engaged in negotiations to make two states, one for Israel the other for Palestine. The fear of dividing the land has become somewhat of an outcry in itself. However the person that God is speaking of in the Old Testament prophecy that divides the land will be the Antichrist himself at the time that he invades Israel and drives them out of their land. Obama is not the Antichrist because there is nothing about him that places him in Bible prophecy. Yet I believe that what he is doing could have a great affect on fulfilling Bible prophecy.

He is going to attempt to convince everyone to internationalize Jerusalem. In other words to make it a city that belongs to the World community rather than Jew or Arab. He believes that since Jerusalem is considered to be a Holy city for Israel, Christians and Arabs that if he makes it international that it will bring peace to everyone. This he hopes will end the battle to own Jerusalem by any particular group. He has the approval of the French president and many other leaders in Europe and across the world. Everyone would like to see peace in the Middle East.

That whole region, including Jerusalem, belongs to the people of Israel and is a promise from God. However the Muslims believe that it belongs to them, especially with the Dome of the Rock sitting on the temple mount. They have a lot of religious interest in the city of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem is the city of David and goes back thousands of years as part of Israel. The temple mount is the very spot that Abraham offered up Isaac. It is the place that Solomon built the first Temple of God. So for me there is no doubt who this city belongs to.

I know that America will always back and support Israel if they are invaded by another country but I also know that America is not going to agree with everything that Israel does. The Bible shows America defending Israel during the last half of the Seven-Year Tribulation period. Them and their allies will drive the Antichrist and his armies out of Israel after he has invaded and divided the land among his friends. But, before all that happens there can be many events that will lead up to the final signing of the seven-year peace agreement that has got to happen.

It is important to think about what could happen. One of the things that could happen and in all probability will happen is that Jerusalem will not become an international city and the struggle over the city will continue until the time that the seven-year peace treaty is signed. Obama is only a man and the problems in that part of the world is only going to increase until there is a seven-year peace treaty. Tragically that treaty will be broken after the first three and a half years.

There still has to be the appearance of the Mahdi, the Muslim messiah that is to come and negotiate this peace treaty. It is written in the Hadith that he will sign a peace treaty with Israel for seven years. Our Bible also tells of such a man. This man will have the approval of the Muslim people and they will trust him to take care of them when he makes his appearance. Only he will be able to make such an agreement with Israel. If Jerusalem does not become an international city then it will take his appearance to bring the problems to an end.

However if Jerusalem becomes an internationalized city it could come with a condition. That condition would be that Israel would be given permission to build their Temple on the Temple Mount along side the Dome of the Rock that belongs to the Muslims. It may take this sort of agreement in order to make it happen. If this is the case and a seven-year peace treaty is signed at the time Jerusalem is internationalized and Israel becomes two states, one for the Jews and one for the Palestinians the Mahdi will be the main negotiator in this peace signing. It could happen this way as well.

We must always remember that nations cannot rise or fall without God’s permission for it to happen. His hand will be in all that comes out of these negotiations. No matter what happens in these negotiations whether it seems good or bad God is still in control. God is not so small that Obama can mess up everything that he has said would come to pass. All that God has promised will happen you can count on it.

On June 14th 2010 around a week later after Obama and Netanyahu had met, Netanyahu gave a speech. The world waited to hear what he was going to say. In the past Netanyahu and the political party that he belongs to has never agreed to a two-state solution. With Obama putting the pressure on Netanyahu, Netanyahu came up with what he could agree with and what he could not.

He decided that he could agree with a two-state solution but said that the Palestinians would have to disarm before he could do it. He also said that Israel would not turn loose or divide Jerusalem. He would not agree to closing down the settlements. He said that if Palestine could agree with these terms that He could agree with a two-state solution. This was so disappointing to the Palestinians and the Arab nations, but most said that it was what they were expecting from Netanyahu. Obama however was enthusiastic that Netanyahu had at least gone from not agreeing with a two-state solution to agreeing with it. He felt that it was a huge leap forward.

The wheels continue to turn until the perfect time for all of the things written in scripture come to pass. I sometimes feel like John in saying, “even so come quickly Lord Jesus.”

News event!5/20/2011: Today Obama and Netanyahu are meeting over a very hot topic. Obama is trying to put pressure on Israel to go back to their 1967 boundaries. If they do this it will endanger the nation's security. This is a lot different than Israel and Palestine working out a deal. It is wrong and it could bring about some repercussion from the Lord. If we try to force Israel to do anything that places them in harms way it could be a different matter all together. Pray that God will help our leaders to have some knowledge and good sense in what they are doing concerning the nation of Israel.

Yours in Christ,
Tommie Spurgeon

 2011/5/23 2:14

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