| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | I just said what James Robison said (I have the DVD), I quoted him, but I don't think I was quoted correctly. |
|  2011/5/18 9:55 | |
| | Re: | | anonymous, I downloaded that 15 page thread if you need for me to quote you and our discussion.
I download threads that are heated because of your tendency to totally change your posts as you have on pg 4 of this thread twice.
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Robert, Tozer is dead. How can he "face his accusers" if the poor man is in Heaven.
That's the only reason I felt this was wrong to write these things about him by these biographers many decades after his passing. He can't tell us what was going on with his wife and family etc.
In that one post where I quoted a student of the biographer that was a fan of not only his professor, the biographer, but was also a strong admirer of Tozer - he posted all the good that Tozer had done for people - which showed that he did not seclude himself from everyone, as he's being portrayed as having done. Even Martin Lloyd-Jones wanted him to speak at his church.
Some marriages are strained for reasons no one knows unless they can speak to Both parties. Even with the in-laws involved. How can we judge this fairly, without the man being here to answer the accusations?
The enomormous amount of books he's written and sermons offered here for us are being maligned by biographers who haven't heard it staight from Tozer's mouth about why he said he was "lonely". We only have the words of others to tear down the man.
I wouldn't wish that on any dead person - nonetheless one of our own.
I hope you can understand at least that much. |
| | 2011/5/18 10:07 | |
| | | 2011/5/18 10:10 | |
| | Re: | | And see my reply to that post as well.
You open that post with I believe that --- "that just because they are "Spirit-Filled", the Holy Spirit will take over and keep that spirit of an unclean devil from coming into them and making a nice home for itself."
Coming "into" them and "making a nice home for itself"... that was what I was replying to in that post. Your belief that a Spirit filled Christian can have demons come 'into' them and make a home. You never retracted "possession" of Christians on that thread and that leaves your wording of what Milt Green did for Robison to be interpreted in the light of your beliefs that Spirit filled Christians can have "spirits of lust" etc "in" them.
The wording doesn't make it sound any different, because of your use of the word "deliverance" for these people with spirits 'in' them. That's why that debate went on as long as it did. It was a very difficult thread.
ETA: Also 777, that was one of the posts that you changed as well - if you notice my reply about "maybe you would and maybe you wouldn't" because I was quoting you there. Oh my. |
| | 2011/5/18 10:31 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
I hope you can understand at least that much.
I think I understand what you mean. I don't believe Tozer has any accusers here. The biographers, as I have stated, tried to focus on the greatness of the man while being constrained to tell the whole story. This is what Tozer's position was as well. I think this is healthy. Many of us have read a lot of biographies and we see this type of thing all the time. If we don't see something that may be of a surprise, some of us will look for another source to make sure were getting the whole truth. If all sources concur on a thing, I think it may well be true. It's my approach and probably a common one.
Personally, I find the lives of men and women of God to be very fascinating and enlightening. I also like reading about secular leaders, etc. I am not offended when something comes out about a person that may trouble me. It may slightly alter the way I perceived them, but rarely does it affect my appreciation for them and their contribution to the churches of God or society. I can have this conversation and listen to a Tozer message at the same time. To me, there is no contradiction. This is not a 'slam' on Tozer or Ravenhill, it is a challenge to certain of their ways.
When I'm dead and gone and someone tells about my life (though it would never be published) I want it to be a balanced point of view. I am not a hero. I am not a comic book figure. I want people to know that. I want them to know I didn't get everything right- to sift though and see what glorified God and edified the churches of God and if there be anything useful- to God be the glory. I would not want to be emulated in areas of sin or excess. We all have to be what God called us to be. I cannot be Ravenhill or Tozer. I have to be me. I cannot look to other great men and try to clone myself. I have to be me. To be me I have to do what God is calling me to do. I cannot do that if I follow in the steps of Tozer or Ravenhill that was their walk with God. Ravenhill is not Tozer and Tozer is not Billy Sunday or Charles Finney. But I can follow in the steps of Christ and allow Him to make me His vessel. I need to be that foot soldier ever ready to do what I'm told.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2011/5/18 10:34 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I will be dealing with this more thoroughly in the Possess The Land thread.
God bless,
A777 |
| | 2011/5/18 10:36 | |
| | Re: | | Brother Robert, I suppose the quote from his wife after he died was most troubling. I just wish we had Tozer's version of why she wasn't happy with him. It said he never missed dinner with his family. There's just too many blanks.
Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate it. |
| | 2011/5/18 10:41 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate it.
No problem at all. I usually find that if we keep talking through things we come to an understanding and God is glorified. :-)
Quote:
I suppose the quote from his wife after he died was most troubling.
I wholly agree. Being aware of this quote I have come to reckon with it by making sure that in my zeal for God I don't miss opportunities to minister at home to the variegated needs of family. I have been guilty of this. This is not to say I place family over God, but just trying to be sensitive to God and not carried away with extremes. I still don't like the quote though, but as the old timers sometimes said 'there it is'. God Bless
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2011/5/18 10:56 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Also, my apologies to the moderators, I just found out about the rules governing the editing of posts.
A777
"Speaking the truth in love."
I've brought it to your attention on a number of occasions, besides the PMs.
It's not about "editing", as you know. It been about completely changing a post after the page changed.
I would have never brought this forward if it were just about changing or fixing up a few words. We all sometimes see our post's errors after hitting reply and make the needed corrections. And add the word "edit" or "eta" only if it's a change or something more is added, but not to change entire posts.
'Truth in the inward parts' is part of fearing the LORD.
Col 3:9
With my prayers and His love. |
| | 2011/5/18 18:10 | |
| | Re: What WAS Tozer doing in there?? | |
Agape Love
"Love," said Meister Eckhart, "is the will to, the intention." By that definition, it is possible to obey the divine command to love our neighbor. We may not in a thousand years be able to feel a surge of emotion toward certain "neighbors," but we can go before God and solemnly will to love them, and the love will come. By prayer and an application of the inworking power of God, we may set our faces to will the good of our neighbor and not his evil all the days of our lives, and that is love. The emotion may follow, or there may be no appreciable change in our feelings toward him, but the intention is what matters. We will his peace and prosperity and put ourselves at his disposal to help him in every way possible, even to the laying down of our lives for his sake.
Love, then, is a principle of good will and is to a large extent under our control. That it can be fanned into a blazing fire is not denied here. Certainly God's love for us has a mighty charge of feeling in it, but beneath it all is a set principle that wills our peace. Probably the love of God for mankind was never more beautifully stated than by the angel at the birth of Christ: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to man on whom his favor rests."
- Tozer
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| | 2011/5/18 18:12 | |
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