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 Re: The destruction of the flesh

Is this even a deeper confession? Not that Jesus came in the flesh as a man and went to the Cross for all believers, but now He is come in our flesh, and our new life.

Phillip, I do agree. His word is made flesh in us, too, as we obey it.

It was important that Christ came in the flesh though, because that's where we are vulnerable to the enemy, and He showed it is possible to BE a man - real flesh and blood - and not sin.

 2011/5/16 16:51

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Hi linn

I agree it was important He came, I was just studing "is come". Present tense.

Quote: "and He showed it is possible to BE a man - real flesh and blood - and not sin."

Only if one is born from above as He was.

In Christ: Phillip


 2011/5/16 18:07Profile

 Re: The destruction of the flesh

Only if one is born from above as He was.

Indeed. But He had to master His flesh just as we do with regard to not yielding to temptation - only we can't begin to master ours, UNTIL we are born from above - as He was.

 2011/5/17 11:03

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707



Will we carry the memory of our past sins into eternity?

How do we get rid of them now?

Jesus had none to remember, except all ours in the cup.

In Christ: Phillip


 2011/5/17 19:57Profile

 Forgiven, and forever forgotton....

Question to Christinyou:
"Will we carry the memory of our past sins into eternity?" to Christinyou.

[The Glorious New Creation ] “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind...Isaiah 65.

We could not be redeemed with the memory of our past sins....we would be in torment, and condemnation.

They have been forever cleansed, and forgotton, and remembered no more!!!!

 2011/5/18 0:21

 Re: The destruction of the flesh

Returning to the matter of 'great tribulation', and that God uses demons to accomplish His will sometimes, I was interested to notice in a post by A777 in Possess the Land, p5, the breakdown of meanings associated with the people groups which God was going to drive out of the land.

In the context of this thread, that would mean 'destroy in the flesh' so that it could be occupied by God's people -our flesh being under the control of the Holy Spirit, separated unto God, victorious over temptation and sinful urges.

'Amorites: PUBLICITY, PROMINENCE and PRIDE (worshipping the gods of I and Me). THE FIRST THING GOD DOES when He begins to deal with us is to humble our pride. Satan, the father of lies, tells us that pride is our best weapon of self-defense (of defending or protecting who we really are). Pride is a pretender. It is obsessed with putting on a good, self-confident front - even when we're cowering behind it, desperately needy and afraid.

CANAANITES: REJECTION (What about me? My feelings are hurt)
Canaan was one of the sons of Ham, who was one of the sons of Noah. The name, Canaan, represents rejection. Just as Adam and Eve were rejected by God and driven away from His presence because of rebellion, Ham made judgments against Noah and became accursed. Rejection already has a place in our lives when we are born of in Adam's image. Our fallen nature is separated from God; we are not whole. We need to feel like we have "a place"; we need to feel like we "belong".

HITTITES: FEAR (I am afraid that something will happen to me or to the people and things that I love). The Hittites were also descendants of Ham. The name "Hittite" means terror, and comse from a root word which means "to break down through violence, confusion or fear." It can also mean "broken, dismayed or in dread or fear".

PERIZZITES: UNFORGIVENESS (Look at what they have done to me; I'll never forgive them or let them hurt me again). The root word means "to separate". The Perizzites were first mentioned in the story of Lot and Abram in Genesis 13. Their herdsmen were in so much strife that Lot and Abram had to separate themselves from each other.

If you trace the word "Hivite" back to its root, you will find that it means "Eve", who was the mother of rebellion. The Hivites were first mentioned in Genesis chapter 10 as descendants of Ham. In Genesis 34, Dinah, Jacob's daughter, was defiled by a man of the Hivites when she went out from the house of Jacob (Israel) to "see the daughters of the land".

The name "Jebusite" means "to trample, loathe, tread down or tread under, to be polluted". The Jebusites were a picture of the defilement which comes into our lives and into our souls through sexual lust, impurity and perversion.'

It struck me that Saul (the king before David) had been sorely afflicted with a Canaanite spirit. Although he tried to disguise it by appearing to be interested in other people from time to time, actually, he was only concerned about himself and his own feelings of well-being, which were measured by his own standards and depended entirely on his perception of other people's opinions (about him, of course).

I guess that brings in the Amorite spirit as well.

Possibly these show us that, humanly speaking he did not cope at all well with the limelight of being king, nor with having been given a prophetic anointing. In his mind, these two factors only served to increase his self-consciousness - which, probably he already had in bucketloads, being head and shoulders above everyone else in Israel, in height.

Instead of being humbled by God's call on his life and becoming more of a man of prayer, he tended to fall back on his own natural thinking and strengths to get success. He didn't rate obedience to God very highly, and as we know his daughter was very young when he gave her to be David's wife, and she was an idolatress, we can guess she learned idolatry as a child in her father's household, (for David never worshipped an idol all his life).

1 Samuel 15:28
And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, better than thou.

1 Samuel 28:17
And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, to David:

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and AN EVIL SPIRIT FROM THE LORD troubled him.

 2011/5/19 9:55


Hi AtG,

I am writing this chronologically as I study so it may seem "choppy", but look what the Word reveals.

Just saw this.
I need to ask the Lord for some insight on these Amalekites. They dwell in the valley and so far I see how cowardly and sneaky they are. But don't know why.

Num 14:25 (Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites dwelt in the valley.) To morrow turn you, and get you into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea.

Valley could be inferiority complex and "bruising" from rejection, and various hurts. Whatever the sin(s) of the Amalekites were, God wanted them totally exterminated (redundant?).

Num 24:20 And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the FIRST OF THE NATIONS; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.
(A description of various nations is in Num 24).

1Sa 15:18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and UTTERLY DESTROY the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.

Looking for "Amalekites" yielded some info that I need to think about, but if you look for "Amalek", you will find more regarding the beginnings of the Amalekites.

Gen 36:12 And Timna was concubine to Eliphaz Esau's son; and she bare to Eliphaz Amalek: these were the sons of Adah Esau's wife. (He came from the lineage of Esau, Esau's son, specifically).

The Children of Israel fought the Amalekites when Moses' hand had to be held up by Aaron. Then there is this curious piece.

Exo 17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
Exo 17:16 For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.

The Lord says that He will have war with Amalek from generation to generation. Which makes him even more interesting.

Ok, here it is. Remember, I said that they seemed cowardly?

Deu 25:17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;
Deu 25:18 How he met thee by the way, and SMOTE THE HINDMOST OF THEE, even ALL THAT WERE FEEBLE BEHIND THEE, when thou wast FAINT AND WEARY; and he feared not God.
Deu 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

This makes me think of "back-stabbing, gossip, slander, defamation of character, coming against people that are hurting, taking advantage of people (using them as the Nicolaitans did), etc. Do you have any additional thoughts?
Basically, undermining and taking advantage of people when they cannot fight back or don't have prior knowledge of what you are doing to them (attacking them).

I noticed that the Hittites, Jebusites and Amorites dwell in the "mountains" which usually speaks of "PRIDE" in the OT. Makes sense when you look at their sins.

AMORITES: PUBLICITY, PROMINENCE and PRIDE (worshipping the gods of I and Me).

HITTITES: FEAR (I am afraid that something will happen to me or to the people and things that I love). Can be rooted in Pride.

The name "Jebusite" means "to trample, loathe, tread down or tread under, to be polluted". The Jebusites were a picture of the defilement which comes into our lives and into our souls through sexual lust, impurity and perversion.'

Num 14:25 (Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites dwelt in the valley.) To morrow turn you, and get you into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea.

Canaanites means Rejection and this makes sense because they dwelt in the VALLEY. (But, I know the root of

What does the Lord do when He comes into our lives? He brings down the proud (mountains), and lifts up the bruised and beaten (inferiority complex, no self-worth), he straightens out the perverted (does not have to mean sexual, just perverted way of looking at things in life instead of viewing life from God's perspective. Like evolution. It's a perversion of truth).

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight (repentance) in the desert a highway for our God.

Isa 40:4 Every valley (inferiority) shall be exalted, and every mountain (pride) and hill shall be made low: and the crooked (perverted) shall be made straight, and the rough(bruised and broken)places plain:

Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
Isa 40:30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

That was interesting and I want to explore more, but have some other things to do.



 2011/5/19 13:07

 Re: The destruction of the flesh

I will make a second reply, A777, but for now, Young's concordance tells me Amalek means 'warlike, dweller in the vale'.

I would say also, look at his forefather Esau for some light. Esau loved hunting, hence, perhaps, a predatory attitude in battle rather than honouring the opponent with a face-to-face encounter.

Regarding the valley, I would call that 'easy living' compared with the mountains. Less stamina is required and less travelling, although Young's describes them as 'marauding nomads'. There are other references to 'Esau' in the minor prophets (you'll have to check) and 'his' attitude to Israel, which the Lord would never tolerate.

Of 'the first of the nations' Young attributes it to 'either their antiquity or their warlike character'.

 2011/5/19 13:53

 Re: The destruction of the flesh

In Exodus 17, the people had been in need of water, just before Amalek came against them. That may be why Moses had to have help holding up the rod till the battle was won, and also why God was soo angry - apart from the fact that Israel and Amalek were the most closely related of all the tribes which God intended to drive out.

Exodus 17:1 And all the congregation of the children of Israel journeyed from the wilderness of Sin, after their journeys, according to the commandment of the LORD, and pitched in Rephidim: and [there was] no water for the people to drink.

2 Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?

3 And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore [is] this [that] thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?

4 And Moses cried unto the LORD, saying, What shall I do unto this people? they be almost ready to stone me.

5 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go. 6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink.

And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?

{Massah: that is, Temptation}
{Meribah: that is, Chiding, or, Strife}

8 Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim.

There are interesting NT associations with water.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Mark 9:41
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Luke 22:10
And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

John 2:7
Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare [it]. 9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 and saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now.

John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 5:
2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep [market] a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. 3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

John 7:37
In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) 40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.

John 9:11
He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

John 13:4
He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. 5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.

Ephesians 5
Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Luke 4:27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

2 Kings 5:10
And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Luke 17:11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13 and they lifted up [their] voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14 And when he saw [them], he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

See Leviticus 14 for full Old Covenant cleansing ritual for lepers.

 2011/5/19 14:54


Thanks for your contribution. Very interesting.

You mentioned "hunters". Definitely the powers of darkness are all "hunters", yet manifest differently in their attacks. I think what was most telling to me were these set of verses regarding the Amalekites.

Deu 25:17 Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;
Deu 25:18 How he met thee by the way, and SMOTE THE HINDMOST OF THEE, even ALL THAT WERE FEEBLE BEHIND THEE, when thou wast FAINT AND WEARY; and he feared not God.

I was thinking about this when you mentioned Esau as a hunter.

Pro 6:4 Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids. (Spiritual sleep and slumber).

Pro 6:5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the HUNTER (powers of darkness), and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.

Luk 22:46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into TEMPTATION.

We cannot view our enemies today as men. Rather, our enemy is powers and principalities in high places.

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to AWAKE OUT OF SLEEP (spiritual slumber): for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1Th 5:6 Therefore LET US NOT SLEEP, as do others; but let us WATCH and be SOBER.

1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep (spiritual slumber) in the night (spiritual darkness); and they that be drunken are drunken (words of men and false doctrine) in the night.

Isa 29 - One of the enemy's strategies is to get us "drunk" on false doctrine (strong wine) and men's words (traditions of men), instead of the pure doctrin of the Holy Spirit.

Psa 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Isa 5:11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink (false doctrine); that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands. (They don't discern things from a spiritual perspective, they are in spiritual darkness and slumber).

Isa 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE: and their honourable men are famished (spiritual "leaders"), and their multitude (congregation) dried up with thirst.

Isa 5:22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength ("leaders", "teachers") to mingle strong drink: (Mixture of a little truth with lies).

All of Isa 5 is very instructive, I won't post everything, here.

A study on "strong drink" in the OT, yields the perversion of God's Word in many instances.

Getting back to "The Destruction of the Flesh", Ezekiel 13 shows a people "enabled" by the "spiritual" leaders instead of "corrected" with truth.

I think it is clear that God Himself reserves the right to "deliver us for the destruction of the flesh".

Jer 16:16 Behold, I WILL SEND for many FISHERS, saith the LORD, and THEY SHALL FISH THEM; and after will I SEND FOR MANY HUNTERS, and THEY SHALL HUNT THEM from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

Jer 16:17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.

Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Jer 16:18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land (temple of the Holy Ghost), they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the DAY of AFFLICTION, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Jer 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods? (Idolatry)

Jer 16:21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

The Lord says that chastisement from Him (He uses the powers of darkness) is the DAY of AFFLICTION. (Jer 16:19 )

Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

Paul was chastised and afflicted just like we all are. And it was for his edification and instruction, just like any other Christian. And what is the purpose? So that we will not perish for lack of knowledge. So that we will mature in Christ and this will benefit the Body of Christ as Paul says. Affliction is not just outward tribulation, but inward tribulation of the soul and chastisements of the heart from the Lord.

2Co 1:6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

I think if Christians (especially me) understood the severity of even little sins and what doors they open to the enemy, or what "place they give to the enemy", we would be more sober in spirit and watch more vigilantly in our walk with the Lord. The enemy is crafty and he will attack every part of us, body, soul and spirit.


 2011/5/19 15:25

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