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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God hates the sinners

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 Re:

Could anyone please give a response to just these few verses?


1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us,
because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. [John 3:16]

1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God,
but that He loved us,
and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love;
and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1Jn 4:19 We love him, because He first loved us.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his Love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 2011/3/29 23:10
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

I believe J-i-G is right on this one, let's stick to what Scripture proclaims about God rather what we preceive we think we know by reading commentary.

I haven't posted on this but I feel compelled to do so, as I was reading the Psalms today I came across Psalms 36 (NKJV)

1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked:
There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes,
When he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit;
He has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 He devises wickedness on his bed;
He sets himself in a way that is not good;
He does not abhor evil.

These first four verse are a proclamation of the wickedness of men, this brothers and sisters is speaking of us of course apart from Christ. The religious or the drunkard are all seen in the eyes of God in this light. We are proud, boastful, we are full of wicked and deceit. We are all unwise. BUT look now at verses 5-6 and pretty much the rest of the Psalm.

"5 Your mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens;
Your faithfulness reaches to the clouds.
6 Your righteousness is like the great mountains;
Your judgments are a great deep;
O LORD, You preserve man and beast."
7 How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
8 They are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
And You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures.
9 For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.
10 Oh, continue Your lovingkindness to those who know You,
And Your righteousness to the upright in heart.
11 Let not the foot of pride come against me,
And let not the hand of the wicked drive me away.
12 There the workers of iniquity have fallen;
They have been cast down and are not able to rise."

Notice what verse 6 says "...O Lord, you preserve man and beast, this is the wicked man and the righteous man alike. We must never forget God is just, and its by His justice He will judge, BUT His justice doesn't voilate His Love. He will lovingly judge us according to His righteousness. We must also NEVER forget Man is not the only factor of wickedness in the scriptures, we can't forget the principalities and powers of the air, the demons, and Satan himself. We battle NOT flesh and blood but these powers according to Paul in Ephesians 6:10-20

God will be faithful in His Justice but for now it is a time of mercy and WE must act accordingly for even NOW God perserves the wicked by blessing them with breathe each day and life, though they dwell in the death of the first Adam. We are proclaimers of that Mercy, the Gospel, which is GOOD NEWS, God hates you is hardly good news.


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2011/3/30 5:33Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3787
Louisiana

 Re:

"Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God."

"O Lord, I have heard your speech and was afraid; O Lord, revive Your work in the midst of the years! In the midst of the years make it known; In wrath remember mercy." (Habakkuk 3:2).

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (John 1:17).

"Because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!" - James 2:13 (NIV)


_________________
Mike

 2011/3/30 8:11Profile
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Psalm 2 (King James Version)

Psalm 2

1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Read Hebrews 1 in light of Psalms 2, this is speaking of Christ

God hates all workers of iniquity; but yet in great unmerited inherent love He has made one way of reconciliation. CHRIST. Enough love to save a billion worlds of sin. Heaven and Hell are both eternal, does not this alone prove the point? We must recognize the whole council of God. What made the propitiation of Jesus Christ necessary???? We do great harm if we only speak of the Wrath of God, but we equally do great harm if we do the opposite as well. Does not true love tell the truth?? As Robert Murray McCheyne said "True love always warns". Who would want a doctor who would not tell the truth in love? Not me. I can't necessarily speak for other who have posted, but I am in no way saying that we are to act in hatred toward others or that we should rant and rail with hatred in witnessing and preaching. Not in any way. Vengence is the Lord's. And Love is the Lords as well :). But we must also recognize and herald the truth, in humility but also authority and earnestnest as a means to an end. That people would repent and believe the Gospel. That God's love would be shed abroad in their heart. It may get us stoned, it may get us persecuted and killed, just ask the prophets of old. Leonard Ravenhill said " If Jesus had preached as most modern preachers do He never would have been killed".

In Salvation we must be thankful, eternally for God's wondrous, infinite love :), but also for His wrath, for I could not be set free from condemnation unless sin has been paid for by Christ. All to the Glory of God.



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Rick

 2011/3/30 22:55Profile
Yeshuasboy
Member



Joined: 2006/6/10
Posts: 668
Northern Rockies, BC, Canada

 Re:

God is not the enemy of sinners, but the carnal mind is at emnity against God. The Father would not have sent the Son to die for the sins of mankind if He thought of them as His enemies. God dwells in the heart of the broken & the contrite, not those who are zealous as before the sons of thunder were converted; for they were ignorant of what spirit they were of. We must be careful not to esteem our doctrine more than the righteousness, mercy, Truth, & justice of the God of Love.


_________________
Richie

 2011/3/31 12:40Profile
therick2018
Member



Joined: 2010/7/12
Posts: 65


 Re:

Why then did Christ have to die on the cross?


A JUST GOD

C.H. SPURGEON

WHEN I was under conviction of sin I had a deep and sharp sense of the justice of God. Sin, whatever it might be to other people, became to me an intolerable burden. It was not so much that I feared the wrath to come, but that I feared sin. I knew myself to be so horribly guilty that I remember feeling that if God did not punish me for sin, He ought to do so. I felt that the judge of all the earth ought to condemn such sin as mine. I sat on the judgment seat and I condemned myself to perish, for I confessed that, had I been God, I could have done no other than send such a guilty creature as I was down to the lowest hell. All the while, I had upon my mind a deep concern for the honor of God’s name and the integrity of His moral government. I felt that it would not satisfy my conscience if it could be forgiven unjustly. The sin that I had committed must be punished. But then there was the question how God could be just and yet justify me who had been so guilty. I asked my heart, “How can He be just and yet the Justifier?” (Rom 3:26). I was worried and wearied with this question; neither could I see any answer to it. Certainly I could never have invented an answer which would have satisfied my conscience.

The doctrine of the atonement is to my mind one of the surest proofs of the divine inspiration of Holy Scripture. Who would or could have thought of the just Ruler dying for the unjust rebel? This is no teaching of human mythology or dream of poetical imagination. This method of expiation is only known among men because it is a fact. Fiction could not have devised it. God Himself ordained it. It is not a matter which could have been imagined.

I had heard the plan of salvation by the sacrifice of Jesus from my youth up, but I did not know any more about it in my innermost soul than if I had been born a Hottentot. It came to me as a new revelation, as fresh as if I had never read the scriptures, that Jesus was declared to be “the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 2:2), that God might be just.

When I was anxious about the possibility of a just God pardoning me, I understood and saw by faith that He who is the Son of God became man and, in His own blessed person, bore my sin in His own body on the tree. I saw the chastisement of my peace was laid upon Him, and with His stripes I was healed (Isa 53:5). Have you ever seen that? Have you ever understood how God can be just to the full, not remitting penalty nor blunting the edge of the sword, and yet can be infinitely merciful and can justify the ungodly who turn to Him? It was because the Son of God, supremely glorious in His matchless person, undertook to vindicate the law, by bearing the sentence due me, that therefore God is able to pass by my sin. The law of God was more vindicated by the death of Christ than it would have been had all transgressions been punished forever. For the Son of God to suffer for sin was a more glorious establishment of the government of God than for the whole race to suffer.

“Jesus has borne the death penalty on our behalf!” Behold the wonder! There He hangs upon the cross! This is the greatest sight you will ever see: Son of God and Son of man! There He hangs, bearing pains unutterable—the Just for the unjust—that He might bring us to God. Oh, the glory of that sight! The Innocent suffering! The Holy One condemned! The Ever-blessed made a curse! The Infinitely Glorious put to a shameful death! The more I look at the sufferings of the Son of God, the more sure I am that they must meet my case. Why did He suffer, if not to turn aside the penalty from us? If, then, He turned it aside by His death, it is turned aside, and those who believe in Him need not fear it. It must be so, that since expiation is made, God is able to forgive without shaking the basis of His throne or in the least degree blotting out the statute book. Conscience gets a full answer to her tremendous question. The wrath of God against iniquity, whatever that may be, must be beyond all conception terrible. Well did Moses say, “Who knoweth the power of thine anger!” (Psalm 90:11). Yet, when we hear the Lord of Glory cry, “Why hast thou forsaken me?” (Psalm 22:1) and see Him yielding up the ghost, we feel that the justice of God has received abundant vindication by obedience so perfect and death so terrible, rendered by so divine a Person. If God Himself bows before His own law, what more can be done?

There is more in the atonement by way of merit than there is in all human sin by way of demerit. The great gulf of Jesus’ loving self sacrifice can swallow up the mountains of our sin, all of them. For the sake of the infinite good of this one representative Man, the Lord may well look with favor upon other men, however unworthy they may be in and of themselves. It was a miracle of miracles that the Lord Jesus Christ should stand in our stead and “bear, that we might never bear, His Fathers righteous Ire.” But He has done so. “It is finished” (John 19:30). God will save the sinner because He did not spare His Son. God can pass by your transgressions because He laid those transgressions upon His only begotten Son.

What is it to believe in Him? It is not merely to say, “He is God and the Saviour,” but to trust Him wholly and entirely, and take Him for all your salvation from this time forth and forever—your Lord, your Master, your All. If you will have the Lord Jesus, He has you already. If you believe on Him, I tell you, you cannot go to hell, for that were to make the perfect sacrifice of Christ to none effect. If the Lord Jesus Christ died in my stead, why should I die also? Every believer by faith has laid his hands on the Sacrifice, and made it his own, and therefore may rest assured that he can never perish. The Lord would not receive this offering on our behalf and then condemn us to die. The Lord cannot read our pardon written in the blood of His own Son and then smite us. That were impossible. Oh, that you may have grace given you at once to look away to Jesus, Who is the fountainhead of mercy to guilty man! Will you come into this lifeboat just as you are? Here is safety from the wreck. Accept the sure deliverance. Leap for it just as you are, and leap now!

I will tell you this thing about myself to encourage you. My sole hope for heaven lies in the full atonement made upon Calvary’s cross for the ungodly. On that I firmly rely. I have not a shadow of hope anywhere else. You are in the same condition as I am, for we, neither of us, have anything of our own worth thinking of as a ground of trust. Let us join hands and stand together at the foot of the cross and trust our souls once for all to Him who shed His blood for the guilty. We will be saved by the one and the same Saviour. If you perish trusting Him, I must perish too. What can I do more to prove my own confidence in the Gospel which is set before you?


_________________
Rick

 2011/3/31 14:19Profile
bible4life
Member



Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1576
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

A lot of great posts on this discussion. I think this hatred that the scriptures speaks of is definitely a righteous and holy hatred that we cannot fully comprehend, I guess the more the Lord reveals himself to you the more you might understand it. This hatred is most definitely not a wicked hatred like we might have in our flesh one that is ungodly from Satan, but a godly one. I am sure when we see the word hatred it will bring many negative thoughts to our minds, but I know that this a truly good hatred that God has. In a sense the scripture makes it sound that upon the rejection of the love of God in Christ Jesus alone we are only left with his wrath and Holy anger or what you would call righteous hatred. The scriptures do say unbelievers are enemies until being born again that is clear. The true objective here is why to focus on God's hatred so much, the scriptures do proclaim it, but also proclaim his desire for all men to be saved and repent, they should be warned of the wrath to come if they reject this and also that Christ bore our wrath upon himself on the cross and appeased the wrath of God. Jesus took that wrath upon himself. I mean you see in the New Testament clearly Christ begging men to repent while on earth, meeting and eating with them, he sincerely wanted them to be saved. He knew his wrath was to come upon them if he didn't, but he loved them so much to come and reach to them to be saved, upon that rejection a Holy God can only respond with perfect justice. I really have liked reading much of this all. Very interesting thoughts and scriptures.


_________________
John Beechy

 2011/4/2 1:33Profile









 Re:


Chris said something on this thread earlier that maybe we should consider as well.

I found this today....

http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2011/03/westboro-baptist-and-phelps-fakes-meant.html

" "God hates you" is written on another poster above. "

 2011/4/2 22:45





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