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 What does it mean to come under God's judgment?

Hebrews 13:4

Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

In these first few verses of Hebrews 13, it is obviously talking to Christians. As this is my first post on this board, I don't want to go into a lot of details, but I know that I am currently under God's judgment. Very briefly, I've been a Christian who had a close fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ for over 30 years. I spent a lot of time in prayer, but I also had a horrible sexual addiction in my life and the "cycle of sin" repeated itself about 500 times over a 25 year span. About a year ago, I woke up one morning and I knew the sweet tender touch and comfort of the Holy Spirit had departed from me. Not only that, but demonic spirits were more active in my mind with annoying music and strange spirits of death. I had a wonderful blessing from the Lord for 3 decades in that He was gentile with me and comforting. He would reveal things to me by His Holy Spirit and lead me and guide me. I had a great intercessory prayer ministry the Lord blessed me with. But I also had this sin and everytime I did it, the Holy Spirit was really quenched and He would stay away for a week or more and I would get sick. But about a year ago, He seemed to withdraw Himself very far from me. Now I have been miserable and can hardly function. I am really sad.

My question is this if anyone cares to comment. What does the word "judge" mean in the above passage? Is it judgment for punishment or chastisement or both? Is it judgment only for punishment? Will the Holy Spirit ever come back?

54-year-old male in Ft. Worth, TX

 2011/2/24 3:09

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710

 Re: What does it mean to come under God's judgment?

Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Romans 7:24
Verse 24. O wretched man that I am! The feeling implied by this lamentation is the result of this painful conflict; and this frequent subjection to sinful propensities. The effect of this conflict is
(1.) to produce pain and distress, it is often an agonizing struggle between good and evil; a struggle which annoys the peace, and renders life wretched.

(2.) It tends to produce humility. It is humbling to man to be thus under the influence of evil passions. It is degrading to his nature; a stain on his glory; and it tends to bring him into the dust, that he is under the control of such propensities, and so often gives indulgence to them. In such circumstances, the mind is overwhelmed with wretchedness, and instinctively sighs for relief. Can the law aid? Can man aid? Can any native strength of conscience or of reason aid? In vain all these are tried, and the Christian then calmly and thankfully acquiesces in the consolations of the apostle, that aid can be obtained only through Jesus Christ.

Who shall deliver me. Who shall rescue me; the condition of a mind in deep distress, and conscious of its own weakness, and looking for aid.

The body of this death. Marg. This body of death. The word body here is probably used as equivalent to flesh, denoting the corrupt and evil propensities on the soul. Cmt. on Ro 7:18. It is thus used to denote the law of sin in the members, as being that with which the apostle was struggling, and from which he desired to be delivered. The expression "body of this death" is a Hebraism, denoting a body deadly in its tendency; and the whole expression may mean the corrupt principles of man; the carnal, evil affections that lead to death or to condemnation. The expression is one of vast strength, and strongly characteristic of the apostle Paul. It indicates,

(1.) that it was near him, attending him, and was distressing in its nature.

(2.) An earnest wish to be delivered from it. Some have supposed that he refers to a custom practised by ancient tyrants, of binding a dead body to a captive as a punishment, and compelling him to drag the cumbersome and offensive burden with him wherever he went. I do not see any evidence that the apostle had this in view. But such a fact may be used as a striking and perhaps not improper illustration of the meaning of the apostle here. No strength of words could express deeper feeling; none more feelingly indicate the necessity of the grace of God to accomplish that to which the unaided human powers are incompetent.

{a} "O wretched" Ps 38:2; 77:3-9
{1} "the body" or, "this body of death"

In Christ: Phillip


 2011/2/27 12:32Profile

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: What does it mean to come under God's judgment?

Rom 6:16-23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. (20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. (21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. (22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Endzone: There is coming a day when God's judgment will be poured out on sin, but I do not believe this day is today (although it is drawing VERY near). Paul tells us in Romans that we become the servants of those things to which we yield ourselves. I do not believe that you are under the judgment of God. Rom. 2:5 tells us that His judgment (His wrath or punishment of sin) is reserved until the end. You have simply opened yourself wide to the enemy to steal, kill, and destroy by continuing in a sin that God desired and still desires to deliver you from. You gave the enemy a stronghold and he took full advantage of it. You feel distant, not because God has withdrawn, but because you have withdrawn. I am sure God was dealing with you about these sins for years, but you continued in them. I can identify because there were areas of my life where I did the same thing. I found myself feeling very distant from God and wondered if He had left me for good. I found in the Bible that I was wrong about that. He promised never to leave or forsake me. Since I have that promise, I know it was me who was doing the leaving and forsaking. I came to a place of repentance and walking away from the sin, and I found God still standing right there, never having left me. When I yielded myself a servant to righteousness, I once again began to experience His life.

Sexual sin is a powerful stronghold and is set apart in scripture as having a very strong effect on a man.

1Co 6:13-20 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. (14) And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. (15) Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (16) What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. (17) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (18) Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. (19) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

You have, through sexual sin, made an agreement with the enemy. This agreement must be broken, and repentance and surrender and submission to God and to the dealings of the Holy Spirit are the only way. I know that there is a certain feeling of safety that comes with the anonymity of a forum such as this. You can admit and confess before people who do not know you. I want to encourage you to find a church in your area (I know there are many in the DFW area) where the word of God is preached without compromise, the grace of God is extend without judgment of man, and the power of the Holy Spirit is in manifest operation, and where the people operate according to the Word of God. You need to know you are safe to open up to mature, Godly leadership about sin issues without your business being broadcast. Then be transparent. Allow God to minister to you. Repent and allow God to change you. There are often underlying issues behind sexual addiction that are the root issues. I have found the primary issue is usually rejection. Pray that God would reveal to you the root of this addiction. God still loves you. It is not He who is judging you. But you need to be delivered from the things that you have allowed to attach themselves to you through this sin.


 2011/2/27 13:51Profile


Thank you for your comments and your encouraging words.

God bless,

 2011/2/28 2:53


I must say though my brother that you could not be more wrong about the Holy Spirit moving away from me. No, He has not deserted me. But He does not speak to me anymore. He does not comfort me with His sweet touch in the morning. He does not lead and guide me. My sins were the reason and after 25 years of this garbage the Lord finally said "enough!". I went thorugh a 6-month period of tormenting demonic fear and pain. It was horrible.

People do not understand the life of King Saul and they do not understand my life. Plus the church is so absolutely up to it's eyeballs in mercy and grace teaching, that it can't even understand judgment & sowing and reaping. And it's amazing too because the church has so much forniaction and pornography going on in it. Nobody is being honest about real Christian living.

Will he restore? I don't know. Nobody wants to talk about real life hard core cases such as mine. All anybody wants to say is "mercy and grace". I guess it is what gets the best response for the tithe too.

No pastor wants to talk about the hard core cases that go through teen challenge or some other such program. The church is only preaching half the gospel--the mercy and grace side. The church is not preaching about the consequences of sin--except mercy and grace of course. This is especially a disservice to the young people in the church.

 2011/2/28 13:42

Joined: 2009/2/20
Posts: 494
Celina, Texas

 Re: 500 and counting

Do not take this as ridicule or making light of what you have said. I would simply like to take a liberty to see what this would look like in the extreme. I won't take it to the full extreme but rather stop short. Lets say this horrible sexual addiction that you opened the thread with is pedophilia (just to put a clearer face on the backsliding which is what is being proposed in your thread. You counted at least 500 infractions in your sexual addiction of roughly 3 decades. Is it possible that through this that the Spirit of Christ would bear with someone as a priest of the almighty God. Still working in and through that person while they frequent the playgrounds of our youth seeking the next victim? After having stolen the innocence of the youth who then might be possibly traumatized for life, that person makes their way to intercede on behalf of others by way of their prayer ministry? That person attends church, bible studies, fellowship etc....After 500 victims over three decades the Lord finally says enough and removes His anointing hand yet not leaving the defiled temple but rather just taking a back seat while He calls on the oppression of the evil one to take affect? Does this sound plausible? More important, does it sound scriptural?

Please do not see this entry as uncaring as I am not trying to make light of your predicament but rather, I'm trying to understand your situation. I would also welcome your take on King Saul for there is much I am willing to learn.

Regarding mercy and grace, the half gospel, the consequences of sin, judgement, sowing etc.... I fully agree with you.

You say no one wants to be real? PM me back.

 2011/3/5 2:10Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795


Will he restore? I don't know.

Yes He can! God's love and Spirit can restore any problems brother. Though God will let some go to the place where even if they wanted to seek repentence they couldn't even with strong crying and tears. My friend the good news for you today is that you are not in that place right now. You are repentant over your sins, you have seen the consquences of them in your life, God is rousing you to see the lifelessness of it all. Christ is a great saviour from sin, He can and must deliver you from these bondages. Look to Him.

Will there be consequences, yes many probably but the Grace and Mercy of God can even work in these for your good. The devil has no power except what has been given Him. Fling your entire life upon the Lord. Hold nothing back. You have no righteousness to offer Him. Commit yourself to trust 100% in the righteousness of Christ and His Grace. Allow the power of God to help you overcome your sin, YOU CANNOT apart from Him.

It will not come right away but daily, hourly, minute by minute commit your ALL to Christ, give Him and depend on Him. He will see you through this to victory, His deliverances will come, His presence will come. Seek Him till He is found even if it takes a year of daily doing this.

Do you have any Christian brothers in your local area you can confess this to and allow them to daily work with you in your seeking the Lord? If this is not done you are prey to the devils work, we were not meant to do the Christian life by ourselves.

You are loved in Christ here brother and God can give you the 100% victory over this, settle for nothing less. CRY OUT TO HIM.

In my life I have declared 100% war against lust in my life. I will not let it rule over me for 1 hour, 1 minute. God is giving the grace. It is a battle brother and the best of us if we relax and do not keep vigilant in the Lord's strength and trusting in Him for purity, we will fall otherwise.

I have failed many times in my Christian walk but the Lord has given me a continual desire for 100% victory over any besetting sins!

Seek Him brother and know you are not alone in this battle.

I felt led to share these 2 videos with you:

No Confidence In The Flesh by Tim Conway

Only One Way To Attain Righteousness by Tim Conway

Don't Be Fooled, The Pew Won't Save You! by Bob Jennings

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2011/3/5 2:25Profile


Thanks Lylewise. All the illicit sex I had was with female prostitutes. I've never touched children (can't even be tempted with that), and I've never had a homosexual experience either. That is also repulsive to me.

King Saul was a mystery man. One moment he would be under the control of the Holy Spirit and the next moment he would be under the control of the demonic spirit.

King Saul's problem was disobedience to the Lord, but it was also pride. It was pride in the sense that King Saul was using the gifts and blessings of the Holy Spirit for HIS purposes rather than to do what the Lord wanted Him to do. This is another part of the tradgedy of his life because he started out so very humble--he didn't even want to be king.

I believe it really was Samuel that appeared to the witch at Endor, and I believe Saul is among the redeamed of the Lord. It must of been devestating to him when the Holy Spirit departed and the evil spirit troubled him.

 2011/3/6 0:07


Hello Semonindex, and thanks for your very helpful and encouraging post. May the Lord Jesus Christ continue to give you complete deliverance from lust. May the Lord continually change your heart so that lust isn't even alive in you anymore. From what I have heard other brothers say, it is when we as Christians are serious with the Lord about giving up this sin that He will change us. The thing about sexual sin is that it is pleasure for a very short while. The Lord can change the desire though and replace it with pure and good desires. May you continue to walk in victory! I've had sex with some of the prettiest women there are, and believe me when I say that it is all emptiness apart from doing it God's way. There is no love or intimacy in illicit sex.

I think I am doing better now in my spirit. I believe the Lord is still on my side.

I've been to Vancouver, BC many times. I have lived in Seattle for about 5 out of the past 10 years. I will say I think Vancouver is a beautiful city, but it has a lot of spiritual darkness. Unfortunately the area that I saw the most of was the area there near Main & E. Hastings where the police station is. I would cruise that strip there on Hastings for hours at a time. The popular hotel I guess for the illicit stuff was that City View hotel just south of McDonalds on Main Street there. I'll tell you this is where I believe I got my case of chronic fatigue syndrome from having unprotected sex with a girl there working this area. This is a horrendously bad drug/prostitution area.

I saw on a board the other day that gas in now about $5.50 USD/gal in Vancouver now. It is really an expensive place to live. But it is also a very interesting place to live. May the Lord bless you there. I'll bet there are some good churches in Vancouver.

I will listen to the links you have posted for me to listen to. Thanks for posting those.

 2011/3/6 0:24

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri


It must of been devestating to him when the Holy Spirit departed and the evil spirit troubled him.

I believe we are warned all throughout the Old Testament about how the Temple of the Lord is 'not' to be handled. Many examples come to mind. These things were written with a view that someday the Temple would not be made of animal skins or stone, but would be made up of living stones. Paul says clearly:

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (I Corinthians 6:19)

When Paul says, "know ye not" there is a great chance that they do not know or they have forgotten. He reminds them. The reminder is consistent with his dealing with the fornicator in chapter 5. It is done for one reason, to secure REPENTANCE. That is, to change the mind about the behavior so as to turn from doing it. So serious was the matter that Paul turned the young man over to Satan. Again, repentance is in view. What does repentance look like and can a person repent of such sin?

We do have David as an example. How do we know David repented? He never committed the sin again. That is as plain as anything. How did he repent?

1. He had a face to face with God.

Nathan deals with David. The story is commonly known so I will not rehearse it. No doubt David had grown cold in his relationship with God leading up to this event. He knew that to regard iniquity in his heart- the LORD would not hear. He was not seeking a place of repentance, he was trying to cover up the sin. This is very important. The time to seek repentance is when God puts His finger on the matter. Don't delay. Behold the time.

And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, [As] the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this [thing] shall surely die: (2 Samual 12:5)

God moved in on David what was dear to his heart. He meets us where He finds us. There is a point in the conversation when David is no longer hearing Nathan, he is hearing GOD speak. This is essential. Thou art the man... signaled that the God who sees- saw what had happened. God pronounced judgment. David's response?

And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. (2 Samuel 12:13)

This is one of the most important passages in all the Bible; for it shows us what must take place for God to take away sins. David came to a place where he quit hiding and ACKNOWLEDGED what he had done. He did not call it a mistake. He did not pass the buck. He owned up with these words, I have sinned against the LORD. We find in the NT John reminding us, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (I John 1:9) The word 'confess' here in the Greek means to say the same thing after or to say the same thing as. We have to agree with God. Not in some flippant way, but in a sincerity that God can believe. God's got to be able to believe us.

When God saw the sincerity of David's heart and the revelation that he had sinned against God, he responded immediately; The LORD also hath put away thy sin. God knew what David was thinking. Suddenly he realized that as surely as the man who had dressed the ewe lamb deserved death- he also deserved to die. What did God answer? Again, thou shalt not die. This is more than academics. This is a deep seated understanding that what has happened is a sin against God Almighty, and God alone. There are others involved, but the one True God is the primary offended party.

As soon as David confessed God forgave. As soon as he ended the cover up- he found forgiveness. He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. (Proverbs 28:13) Say the same thing as. Agree with God.

In time David wrote Psalm 51. He had time to reflect on what he had done. He came into a godly sorrow for his sin. It is the goodness of God that leadeth to repentance. Here is a man that had preached to many others, but now he was living on yesterdays experience. There was no real freshness. There was no real unction as before. He was way off of his game as we say. Surely he grew weary and tired of it. Like the prodigal that came to himself, David had a time of sobriety. Drunk, but not with wine, staggering, but not with strong drink- he had an encounter with God and in the Words of the prophet he found grace to take that next step. It was all over but the reaping.

God is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness, but is long suffering to us ward- not willing that ANY would perish, but all would come to repentance. ANY is everyone without exception. Today, if you hear His voice harden not your heart. Do not say 'LORD help me', for He is already here to help you. Wilt thou be made whole? The decision is always ours.

Robert Wurtz II

 2011/3/6 14:51Profile

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