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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hello Jesus-is-God...

Quote:

Chris, I believe that many people have read this page, .defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674 - and have come out with some of what they believe since then (13 yrs ago), by further research.

My point is not so much whether we agree with these things or not and I don't believe anyone here has broken any 'rules' regarding this topic, by merely stating their opinion.


You have NOT stated an "opinion" about HAARP. Neither did I. I simply cautioned believers about entertaining conspiracy theories:
Quote:
I would be very careful about entertaining the conspiracy theories that circulate around the web regarding HAARP. It is amazing how crazy some of those theories are and based upon the imaginations of people with way too much time on their hands.



I didn't bring up any of the various conspiracy theories about HAARP that are circulated amongst believers and non-believers alike about issues for which many of them have no firsthand (or even secondhand) knowledge. I am merely urging caution that believers shouldn't be given over to such things.

It is disappointing that you think that I am digging at the "intelligence" of educational level of anyone by urging such caution regarding such matters. That is certainly not my intention. However, I do not apologize for urging caution. There are so many conspiracy theories that are rampant amongst believers -- and some have made their way onto the pages of SermonIndex. Over the years, people have uttered conspiracies regarding everything from the swine flu to the Council of Foreign Relations. The evidence that they presented was sometimes nothing more than hearsay, rumor, old wives tales, or connecting dots that were never meant to be connected.

Often, these conversations do nothing more than invoke fear...or a tendency to spread something that might not be 100% true (which makes it either a full or partial lie). I believe that this is all part of why we are supposed to avoid such "vain" things.

Quote:

The two brothers that you mentioned - I read one good Brother here post that the major economic down-turn of 2008 actually began in 2007.
I saw a merciful spirit in that Brother's post, that I don't see on this thread.
At least in the case of the two brothers that you mentioned, from what I know, most people waited until 1/1/08 before they began to viciously attack them.



I don't think that you were around at that time. It wasn't a vague prophecy about the "beginning" of an economic downturn. Their prophecy was composed of very specific things that were supposed to take place within the calendar year.

Most of us urged caution in this matter BEFORE the end of the calendar year for which the SPECIFICITIES within their claim was supposed to have taken place. Most of us saw (and still see) those brethren as being completely sincere in what they felt that the Lord had shown them, although the specific nature of their claims was proven false. No one (at least no one that I could tell) pointed the finger of judgment at them. In fact, many of us -- with hearts that hurt with love for these brothers -- urged them to remain in fellowship here. Of course, perhaps you can point me to the posts where believers showed such a tendency to "viciously attack" them?

Quote:

Regarding TSC - "during a Service" - you said that woman's word was "similar" --- In what way?
I doubt that David Wilkerson would say, "Really?" and then mock a Sister by mischaracteristizing the omniscience of GOD.



Now, you are misquoting me. I didn't "mischaracterize" the omniscience of God. I am fully aware that God knows and sees all things -- and I think that such understanding is obvious to all believers. Nor was I trying to mock this sister. IF you perceived it that way, I don't know what to say other than tell you that you misunderstood my post. In that post, I injected two disclaimers in order to specifically state that I was not doing what you accused me of doing. For me, it was all about how we can test the specific notion that someone directly attributed to God Himself.

HeartSong made something of a "prophetic" statement that she directly attributes to the LORD as having shown her. She asked us to pray specifically about it. However, how do we test her words?

What do we do if there is no major earthquake along the New Madrid fault during the month of May? Do we just attribute it to "the prayers of the saints" that stopped it? Or is it possible to question whether the Lord actually showed our sister this thing that she claimed that the LORD specifically "showed" her? We are instructed by God to test such things. How is it possible to test such supernatural public claims if someone complains when those words are publicly examined?

As for TSC: The woman uttered a "word" (in a first-person, "thus saith the Lord" manner) that was literally composed of words supposedly spoken verbatim by God. The woman stated things about God being "pleased" with certain things and "disappointed" regarding other things and injected a bit of instruction about what direction this particular local congregation needed to go. Pastor David publicly rebuked the woman who uttered the "prophetic word" and explained why within his rebuke.

In it, Brother Wilkerson questioned why God would possess this woman's mouth in order to interrupt the meeting and say some things that are so obvious to all believers. He also questioned why God would bypass the church overseers by speaking through the woman directly to the congregation regarding the direction that the congregation needed.

Quote:

I don't go offline to compose my posts nor do I like to force anyone to read long ones but I feel that your tone did need to be checked - by you. If you feel justified in All that you've written on page 1 - so be it. Accountability is in the eye of the beholder than.



Again, I don't understand what it is that you are implying. I didn't go offline to compose my post. I logged on...and posted. In addition, I don't "force" anyone to read my posts (let alone "long" posts). I did check the tone of my post, and I apologize if your misunderstanding of the tone was due to poor writing on my behalf. However, I feel no more apprehension for you questioning the tone of my post than I suppose that a true prophet would feel regarding the testing of their words.

Again, a disclaimer: I am NOT saying that HeartSong is incorrect in what she claims that the Lord showed her. I am just wondering how we can test such a specific, prophetic word. How do we hold anyone accountable if people get angry when we test words?


_________________
Christopher

 2011/1/16 16:58Profile









 Re:

Hi Chris. I don't want to continue on with this except to say that with this example you give of the woman at TSC, I find nothing "similar" to what was shared on this thread.

The part that I felt was a wrong characterization of GOD and not done in the right spirit was from the same quote I posted to you the first time - at the bottom of pg 1.

Quote: "Really? The Lord has intercepted a message amongst the kingdom of darkness about how Satan wants to cause an earthquake during the month of May...and has revealed this to you?"


As you've mentioned toward the end of this post, about "true prophets" --- To "give a prophecy" is not a claim to being "a prophet".

Again, you are wondering "how to test" this. Again I have to answer - wait and see Brother. That's all we need do - and then - HeartSong posted on the previous page what she feels.

Asking you to just lighten up a bit on her I feel is not asking far too much.

This ends my replies.

Shalom

 2011/1/16 17:22
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi Jesus-is-God...

Quote:

Hi Chris. I don't want to continue on with this except to say that with this example you give of the woman at TSC, I find nothing "similar" to what was shared on this thread.


As I was trying to point out, I was attempting to highlgiht the similarity in finding some sort of Scriptural way for "testing" the "words from God" that we share publicly. As you mentioned, this is about accountability.

Quote:

The part that I felt was a wrong characterization of GOD and not done in the right spirit was from the same quote I posted to you the first time - at the bottom of pg 1.



Once again, I apologize if you misunderstood the spirit by which I made my statement. My point was that HeartSong made a very specific, public claim about the LORD having "shown" her something. How do we test her words?

Quote:

As you've mentioned toward the end of this post, about "true prophets" --- To "give a prophecy" is not a claim to being "a prophet".



Regardless of whether a person claims that they are a prophet or not, a prophetic utterance must be tested.

Quote:

Again, you are wondering "how to test" this. Again I have to answer - wait and see Brother. That's all we need do - and then - HeartSong posted on the previous page what she feels.

Asking you to just lighten up a bit on her I feel is not asking far too much.



So, are you saying that her claim cannot be tested except to simply wait and see if it happens. But then what? What if it doesn't come to pass? What if there is no major earthquake during the month of May? Do we pass it off as being "thwarted" by the prayers of believers? Or is there a level of accountability to the body of believers for the specific things that we claim in a public forum?

Why does this matter?

There are so many "words" and claims being uttered that go untested by believers! TBN is filled with "prophets" (or those who claim to operate "prophetically") who utter lies in the name of Jesus. Benny Hinn has been guilty of uttering specific LIES that he claimed God "showed" him -- which have even been documented (including the dates for which is "words" were supposed to be fulfilled). In other words, there are plenty of false words out there. Without accountability, many of those nice people will feel "free" enough to continue making false claims in the future.

Again, I am NOT saying that HeartSong "missed it" or was anything other than completely sincere in regard to what she says the LORD showed her regarding an earthquake in May. I don't pretend to know whether or not she really heard this from the Lord. She hasn't explained just HOW the Lord showed her this future event. She just shared it on a public forum that is read by believers and unbelievers alike.

I am more concerned with the purpose of such words. They often invoke fear. Believers aren't supposed to worry or be anxious about such things. We are supposed to daily seek the Lord for perfect intimacy with Him regardless of our situation. We aren't supposed to be lightheaded about such things. Rather, we are called to be sober and vigilant as we test everything -- whether the words of men or of angels.

I hope that this clarifies the point(s) that I was trying to make.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/1/16 17:45Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


 Re:


After my last post, I went to prayer and found myself praying more for the eyes and ears of God's people to opened than that the earthquake be stopped. I then read my Psalm for the day, Psalm 56, and was encouraged by verse 11 "In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me." I then went on to continue my reading in the New Testament. Before turning to the page, I prayed that the LORD would show me what He would have me to see. This is the first thing that I read: "1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." - Matthew 24:1-2. As I read verse 2, my heart sank.

 2011/1/16 19:03Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


 Re:


As far as the quote in my signature, the way I see it is that when we listen to the voice that tells us to do what we want to do, versus what GOD would have us to do, we are listening to Satan.

I tried to change it awhile back when someone had a problem with it, but the computer would not allow me to make the change. Then I remembered when the LORD used Charles Finney's face on the cover of an Old Paths Magazine to convict me of every little thing I did wrong and assumed that the LORD was wanting to continue to use my signature in the same way.

 2011/1/16 19:12Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


 Re:


I really could use some prayer as I am feeling a tremendous weight right at the moment.

 2011/1/16 19:15Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

I am praying for you, dear sister.


_________________
Christopher

 2011/1/16 19:22Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Dear HeartSong,

Thank you for confirming your Sig to be an example of what to avoid.

Do not be weighted down with worries, you are in my prayers, as well many others, too.

The way I see it, Earthquakes come from God and if he chooses to send it, it will be for His glory and for His purpose. Seeing it in that light, I say, send it, Lord, Your will be done.

It doesn't seem to me we are to pray for disasters to be forestalled (for there will be earthquakes that level the mountains), we are to pray for the Saints and the Church. Perhaps you are taking on more responsibility than you need? It may be an earthquake is necessary to draw some from the World and to Jesus. Better to pray for His will to be done. The evil one can do nothing without permission.

Kind regards, to a dear sister,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2011/1/16 21:34Profile









 Re:


Just wanted to say to my Sisters ~ all these things are allowed by GOD to prepare our hearts to "fear not" - whether this particular earthquake takes place or not doesn't matter to me - we know that He said that they will happen more and more in divers places - even where they've never been expected - so I don't take these words as out of the ordinary - GOD could have stopped all words if He chose to - He told us that these things would come to pass - but that we should never allow anything to throw us into fear. To be forewarned by the Prophecies in The Word, is to be forearmed against fear. Bless The LORD! Psalm 46

LORD Bless ya's and comfort weary hearts.

 2011/1/17 11:34









 Sister Heartsong

Quote:
I really could use some prayer as I am feeling a tremendous weight right at the moment.



as i type these words to you, in my spirit and with the Enabling of The Holy Spirit, i pray for you, i pray for the comfort and peace that ONLY the Holy Spirit can bring, amen.

i also pray that any words i now write are engendered by the Holy Spirit, IN Jesus and IN His Love;

sometimes i feel that all of us, and i am guilty too, we sometimes fail to realize we all are "broken bread" as it were. we all suffer while in this vessel, we all fear, we all stumble, we all say or write things to one another that are not of Messiah.

i have been giving through study of late, reading and re-reading the Book of Proverbs. Proverbs, as i see it, with the Help of the Holy Spirit is a Book of "roads", the road of the righteous, the road of the wicked...and an appeal to the "simple" to walk the road of the righteous. After i finish this exercise, i want to then go into the Four Gospel Accounts.

i only tell you this, to let you know where "i'm at"...much the same as if we were having a conversation.

not 7 hours ago, i had the worst nightmare, i have ever had in my life. a bad dream nightmare, not the waking kind. i won't even detail it. Through my life i've had many dreams, many have been glimpses of the future, many have not.

but i keep my mouth shut, but no longer.

many men, some foolish, self proclaim themselves as "prophets". i would never do this, because i fear God, and would never deign to play games with Yahweh, i love Him, He has always shielded me, even from my own nature.

the world as we know it,is full of violence, hatred; both of humankind and God; lust, whether it be lust of pleasure, power, money, this world's "chess pieces" are moving. Foul spirits fill not only the heart of common man, but the hearts of rulers, whether they be "elected" or not....even those possessed by the "spirit of religion" are doing the devil's bidding by cuddling up with vain men, full of violence and greed, i don't care whether they call themselves "christians", "catholics", "muslims" "hindu's", "buddhists", or whatever deviant nomencalture they desire to attach to their outward appearances of religiousity. God knows their hearts, He knows their wicked schemes, and God, Who is so patient and so loving, is brimming with anger.

But YOU, HeartSong, dear child of His...do not fear. You know Jesus loves YOU, and loves all here, who are guileless of heart, and poor in spirit. Jesus Himself told you, in the Beautitudes of Matthew, how He loves you, and will never leave you, never forsake you...in that ONE GREAT HOPE, we rest and sup of His Body, cover ourselves in His Blood.......THIS IS OUR HOPE, and OUR FAITH, quiet, like a Rock.

Do we stumble? Yes, but like a fallen child, in child-like Faith, we know enough, just to reach our hand up, and there is the Hand of Jesus, who can resist such a Beautiful Hand?

When i was a wee lad, educated in the synagogue, i read many accounts of what we call the Shoah, referred to as the Holocaust in popular terminology, i was no more than 8 years old, saw many documentaries. At the same time, this was in the 1968 to 1972 time frame, (i was precocious, devoured book) i was also led to read every survivors account from the nuclear attacks of Hiroshima and Nagasaki i could lay my hands on.

Horrible vicious tales, that frequently filled my child dreams. As i grew i began to study nuclear war fighting. i was also led to study about petroleum. at a very age, 17, my first job was within the intelligence/military intelligence community, and was allowed, (by God) to see many things, without prejuidice, or presuppostion, i was allowed to see lies and hypocrisy, much to the breaking of my heart.

Then i entered the world of trade and finance, in many ways the same thing, as the hearts of men are dark, and so easily astray by the lust of money, power and pleasure. But by God's Grace and Guidance, my hands were never stained by the theivery that goes on in that world...it just "wasn't me"...not that i'm "perfect", but Praise Jesus, He really put two Posts in my heart, i never had a love or lust for money, and i have always striven to be what we term in Hebrew, a "tzadik", a "righteous man".

i know now that "none are righteous", which is why the Blood of Christ was shed.

(i am "going somewhere" with all this...bear with me)

i won't go into my third "career", but Praise God, i'm done with it, and God has saw fit to bless me with sufficient resource, and He has been giving me leadings for many years. i'm going to tell you where my heart leads me, and what i see, and i pray my words are true:

Heartsong, you remember after our Lord Jesus was hung on that tree?...and after the Day of Pentecost, a lot of the Early Church was in Jerusalem?....i'm referencing a period from the late 30's to the early to mid 60's...Jerusalem of course was occupied by the roman empire, and the city was just a hotbed of revolt and sedition....it was that way when Jesus was in His earthly ministry. Well, His followers, disciples, apostles, knew better than to get caught up in that foolishness.

i don't know for certain, but i do believe a great number of the Lord's, led by the Holy Spirit, got out of Jerusalem before the revolt that led to the City's destruction in the late 60's, by the romans.

my forthtelling is this, i can apprehend what many of these followers of Jesus, in those days, felt.

get out of the "city".

learn how not to be "dependent" on others to manufacture your food....learn the old skills of storing your food, to grow it.

regard the Word, the Logos, that Bible (or Praise God, BibleS, plural) as more sacred and precious as fine gold, for a day is coming when Bible ownership will be "illegal".
(while that might sound "horrible", it might be a case of satan overplaying his hand, because then the children of man would rightily place This Logos in the true import it deserves, which is to "eat" of the Word)


man's heart is dark, and every weapon he has fashioned, he will use again and again, therefore, i know not when, mankind will once again, wage war with nuclear weapons. But don't let fear grip you, because you are under God's Wing in His Faith. (Psalm 91)

Jesus told His followers, there will come a day, when you need to trade your cloak and buy a sword. Listen to Him. i will not say anything more than that.

"politics"...or "polis" is just a dead end road for followers of Jesus, to labor in this pursuit, is "wind", unfruitful exercise. This is just the way, the path that God the Holy Spirit has been leading me. avoid this wind, fore its "fruits" are bitterness, diviseness and rancor.


Bless God for the blessing of electricity, and for a sound automobile. but work towards a day when there are neither available.


Pray for God to send you other Holy Spirit filled followers of Jesus, when "out of the city" (if you have the same "get out" leading) we should also seek out Jesus' followers....go to appropriate churches, with agape love filling your heart. These dear saints the Lord sends you will be your "communitas" (i dearly love Bonhoeffer's book, "Life Together")

though this may on first blush, sound worldy, it might be wisdom, but as your purse allows, save real currency, distrust the "paper money". Time after time, in the Bible, we read reference of everyday trade being in silver, therefore as your purse, or wages allow, buy silver coins of american mintage, also stack away boxes of the lowly nickel, as they are the only coin left, that is actually instrinically worth its denomination. (and that will change soon as the govt will "debase" it) pre-1982 pennies, purely of copper, are now worth almost 3 cents, accumulate these also.

and finally, even in the darkest days, remember mercy, remember love, remember charity, keep and guard the Faith that has entrusted to you, to us, to everyone the Lord calls His Own, for in Christ Jesus is our All in ALL.

i send you my love and prayers in the Holy Spirit, n.

 2011/1/17 14:01





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