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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : John The Baptist Fire of God Part 2 by L Ravenhill :The same as the Toronto Blessing or not?

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elected
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Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

There are alot of bizarre things goin on these days among christians or professing christians, and i have been convinced by counterfeit experiences and fauls spirits deceiving carnal christians or the lost. We have all kinds of weird manifestations today that dont result in fruits of holiness or christlikeness. Thats the test, those people who claim those wonderful experiences, do they become more holy or christlike in their heart or life or do they bear unholy fruits that are the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus said to judge a tree by its fruits and we have the right to judge a movement by its fruits.

Christians go from one extreme to the other, either rejecting outward emotions or manifestations as from the devil or naivly accepting them an the outward signs of the Holy Spirit. When John Fox preached under the power of the Spirit, people will shake, thats why they call them Quakers, Johns Wesley saw people fall as dead on the floor under the power of the Holy Spirit and wake up converted and praising God for his amazing grace. The history of genuine revivals of the past is full of outward manifestations and they were either from God or the devil or the flesh. There are also counterfeit revivals in these last days where the fauls spirits imitate the work of the Holy Spirit with the sole purpose to deceive those who are unstable and spiritually blind.

We are to test the spirits and see whether they are from God or not, the Lord s sheep hear his voice and follow Him. We shall know the truth and the truth will set us free, if we lean on the Spirit and heed his inner small voice, he will guide us to the path of holiness where only the saints walk.

I just want to add that a preacher with unction can deliver his sermon and people can act like devils or like convicted poor sinners or convicted saints. The preacher is not responsible for the effects of his preaching but for the faithful delivery of God s word. I hope i make some sense here.

P.S. Edited


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Redi

 2010/11/16 21:05Profile
learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

[by StarofG0D on 2010/11/16 17:10:54

I listened to this as well. I thought Leonard seemed rather shocked that it was happening, although he adds something to the effect that God told him it was going to..]


StarofGod, your post made me listen to the sermon again. Are you talking the part where Leonard say 'isn't it amazing' as the part where you thought he seemed rather shocked? Thanks.


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geraldine

 2010/11/16 22:39Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi,Elected probably hit the nail on the head below:

(I just want to add that a preacher with unction can deliver his sermon and people can act like devils or like convicted poor sinners or convicted saints. The preacher is not responsible for the effects of his preaching but for the faithful delivery of God s word. I hope i make some sense here.)


I have since listened to part one of the message which was like other sermons and was quite good.
I do see the point learn made that Leonard seemed to endorse what was going on.The only thing is that we do not know what Leonard was actually looking at at the time as we were not there and dont know how many ppople were in the conference.
Maybe somebody out there was at the conference and could shed some light?
Which brings me to another question can the Holy Spirit manifest himself in a group at the same time evil spirits are manifesting themselves in the same group?
Staff


 2010/11/17 7:05Profile









 Re:

Can I say this without getting beat up too bad? Anyone who knows me knows I love Leonard Ravenhill... but I have often questioned his discernment concerning those with whom he associated with throughout his ministry. Most were truly men of God, but some were false teachers following after and promoting false doctrines and false revivals.

I understand wanting to preach the uncompromising truth of God's Words, but often times if we are not careful our associations can appear to be a stamp of approval and can often times lead people astray.

 2010/11/17 7:56
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

HomeSkoolDad,
I certainly am not going to bash you --you did make a valid point.

I think that its important that we don't refuse any questioning of any pastor because even the most godly ones can and do make mistakes such as maybe endorsing wrong pastors/teachings etc. Through discussions if done in meekness and with a seeking heart, it will help people to discern what is right. I think discernment is very important because once we are misled or is under the oppression of a false spirit, its going to be so much harder to get out and even worse they will entangle others to this. Of course, by allowing these type of questionings, there will be cases where some do turn it into bashing each other etc and this is something that we all must be careful not to do. We cannot throw out the baby and bathwater just because some threads/posters will turn ugly and start judging instead of sincere questioning and answering.

Sincere asking about something/someone which at times may show the weakness of the person/teaching is important because it helps us to discern and to be careful. This is not to be construe as judging. If we deny this right of question, then we may very well end up with poor discernment which is what I have noticed elsewhere. We can still love and promote the pastor/teaching but with some advise to avoid certain portions or association with a particular person that this pastor promotes. This is real wanting to know the truth and being careful. Its taking the best of each pastor/teaching to enhance our walk with God.

Just like this sermon, I already knew beforehand that what elected said and staff reteirated to be true and that's why I was and still am keen to ensure that the move there was really from the Holy Spirit and not a false spirit. I love Ravenhill too and know that he is a godly man but it doesn't mean I will blindly accept everything. A poster here said something about Ravenhill saying always to question everything and even Paul Washer mentioned that when some people critise him, it could be true. I believe all godly people will never feel offended if their teachings etc are questioned if its done with a sincere heart really wanting to know the truth/discernment to help them and others in their walk with God.


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geraldine

 2010/11/17 9:23Profile
StarofG0D
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Joined: 2007/10/28
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 Re:

Quote:
I understand wanting to preach the uncompromising truth of God's Words, but often times if we are not careful our associations can appear to be a stamp of approval and can often times lead people astray.



To the carnal mind this may appear to be true. But Jesus also preached to publicans and sinners. I often think of Mt 10:14 in these kinds of situations. Why should not a person go, if they are being received? It is possible that many of those people may not have heard the Word like LR can preach if LR would not have gone. So is it better to stay away for the sake of his reputation?

I used to think Keith Daniel preached at some crazy places, but after thinking about it, why not?

learn: I will have to relisten to the message, to remember for sure. But I think, when the crying first started at first, his tone of voice changed, and speech slowed. Which may mean nothing, but to me he just seemed a little surprised. Which who would not be?


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Michelle

 2010/11/17 9:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
To the carnal mind this may appear to be true.



Sooo... I have a carnal mind? :-)

It's one thing to go and minister in different situations, it is quite another to be associated with known false teachers and offer NO warning of such, and in fact call them brother.

That is unbiblical.

 2010/11/17 11:42
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi,its been an interesting discussion and has helped me.
I do think however if John Wimber gave that sermon with the same words,tone etc exactly the same with the same spiritual manifestations that we would probably reject it as false.I know I would anyway,Staff

 2010/11/17 18:23Profile
mkal
Member



Joined: 2007/10/8
Posts: 49
Minnesota

 Re: ravenhill - vineyard

If there are modern day prophets, I would have to say Ravenhill was one of these. He preached many anointed messages, both convicting as well as uplifting.

Jeremiah 23:28-29 states, "Let the prophet who has a dream recount the dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?” declares the LORD. “Is not my word like fire,” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?"

 2010/11/17 21:02Profile





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