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dab
Member



Joined: 2008/8/8
Posts: 50
Kentucky

 Re:

I'm looking for some clarity. I find the New Testament say that when one speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God (I Cor.14:2) - I have not seen clearly that it is God speaking to men? Being a pastor in a "Pentecostal" church, just some questions - I don't want tradition to weaken Scriptural instruction. Thanks for any Scriptural insight someone might provide.

To be nothing, if not His slave
David


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David

 2010/10/29 10:42Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

A good word in general, but nothing to "write home about."


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Jimmy H

 2010/10/29 11:00Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Quote:
I find the New Testament say that when one speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God (I Cor.14:2) - I have not seen clearly that it is God speaking to men? Being a pastor in a "Pentecostal" church, just some questions - I don't want tradition to weaken Scriptural instruction. Thanks for any Scriptural insight someone might provide.



Dab, that is a good question! I too must be careful not to hold tradition above sound scriptural interpretation. So with that said my only explanation would be that Paul places "interpretation of tongues" in the same category as prophecy throughout 1cor. 14. "greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret,". The interpretation of tongues is to be edifying to the body in the same sense that prophesying is.

"he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort. "(1Cor. 14:3)

That is the only way I know to explain it in light of the experience. You might listen to Zac Poonen on spiritual gifts. I think he has some very good stuff on the subject.
Are you saying that you are a Pentecostal pastor?

 2010/10/29 17:47Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re:

Quote:
A good challenge for the church, but if anyone is reading their Bibles, they would've known all that before...



While this is true if the Holy Spirit felt it necessary to share with us I thought it might be worth sharing too. We also have alot of new believers in our church, many that would not be familiar with these things yet. But I understand what you're saying anyone who is walking with Christ will be ready for anything that happens! "The Lord is our Shepherd"!

 2010/10/29 17:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It is true we are to judge prophecy for ourselves and determine whether God indeed has spoken - and that by the Holy Ghost!

Whether it was or it wasn't, it's a standard warning that has been spoken many many times. I have heard the same many times. There is nothing notable in it, what I mean is, there is nothing specific. There is nothing like, "A great earthquake will crack the foundations of the Eastern seaboard". There was nothing that stands out, that is why I've filed it under as a standard warning.

 2010/10/29 18:09
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I'm looking for some clarity. I find the New Testament say that when one speaks in tongues, he is speaking to God (I Cor.14:2) - I have not seen clearly that it is God speaking to men? Being a pastor in a "Pentecostal" church, just some questions - I don't want tradition to weaken Scriptural instruction. Thanks for any Scriptural insight someone might provide.



The first recorded instance of tongues is the day of Pentecost. The tongues were used, not in prayer to God, but in declaration of His wonderful works.

Act 2:11
(11) Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

1 Cor. 12-14 is picked apart. By this I mean phrases are lifted and examined in an attempt to support on view of the gifts of the Spirit or another. The chapters are meant to be read directly and interpreted in the context of all of Paul's letter. An aside note, chapter 13 speaks of the context in which the gifts mentioned in 12 and 14 operate, motivated by God's kind of love.

However, 1 Cor. is pretty clear that tongues and interpretation are equivalent to prophecy. Having been filled with the Holy Spirit more than 20 years ago, and having walked with God ever since, I have experienced many prophecies, tongues, interpretations, words of wisdom, words of knowledge, healings, miracles, etc. I won't despise prophesying (1 Thes. 5:20), but I will test all things and hold fast that which is good.

1Cor. 2 is also a wonderful passage as it explains in great detail why Jesus sent the comforter. Through being filled with the Holy Spirit we can know the deep things, even the hidden things of God. Through this communion with God through the Holy Spirit God gives us His mind in things. We have the mind of Christ. I have had many times when I have had the sense of what God was doing although not a direct word of wisdom, knowledge, prophecy, tongue, or interpretation. It was because I was "tuned in" so to speak to the same Holy Spirit (there is only one) as other spirit filled believers around me. It caused us to act with great unity and harmony in times of prayer ministry or times when different people were standing and giving words that they sensed God was wanting to give. A good example would be a time when I knew three distinct things that a person needed prayer for in the Spirit, but nothing had been said about these needs. Another in the body came to pray for this man and said, "I feel led of the Holy Spirit to pray for you about these three things..." It is simply a matter of being in tune with the Holy Spirit.

The word given should not be expected to be substantially different from scripture if it is a word from the Lord. It could be a reminder to many of things they were not currently receiving from the word due to reading or studying in a different portion of scripture.

Some thoughts to consider.


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Travis

 2010/10/29 19:47Profile
dab
Member



Joined: 2008/8/8
Posts: 50
Kentucky

 Re:

Thanks for your response, Travis. I appreciate your taking the time. One of the things lacking about this kind of communicating is that it requires a specificity that is sometimes assumed in face-to-face conversations, so I apologize for not being real clear. I guess my question is about the gift of tongues and interpretation as an operation in the assembly. As far as I can tell, there was no "gift" of interpretation operating on the day of Pentecost - "we each hear in our own language...." I understand Paul's reference to the equivalence between the gift of prophecy and the gifts of tongues/interpretation as equivalent in usefulness, but not purpose. I don't know if I've missed something, but every reference Paul makes to tongues in I. Cor. 14 is that it is from man to God:
v.2 "anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to men but to God";
v. 14 "if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays";
v. 16 "if you are praising God with your spirit";
v. 17 "you may be giving thanks well enough."

I hope I'm not presenting this an attempt to bring the gifts into question. I've been 'Pentecostal' (please pardon my use of a label) in doctrine and experience for 30 years, graduated from a Pentecostal-based college in Tennessee (not that I am esteeming that as some kind of accomplishment for the sake of pride - just a reference to my background, which I pray the Lord will grant me to consider as 'dung'), but I am questioning the 'tradition' of the gift of interpretation as a "Thus saith the Lord" if it is only a tradition. And I apologize if this has been discussed before - I've been following the forums for a couple of years, but have not seen this specific issue addressed. If it has, if someone could please direct me to one of those threads. Thanks again, Travis for your response.

To be nothing, if not His slave
David


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David

 2010/10/30 10:20Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Whether it was or it wasn't, it's a standard warning that has been spoken many many times. I have heard the same many times. There is nothing notable in it, what I mean is, there is nothing specific. There is nothing like, "A great earthquake will crack the foundations of the Eastern seaboard". There was nothing that stands out, that is why I've filed it under as a standard warning.



If you read the prophesies in the Bible they were very specific (of course we have the advantage of looking at them retrospectively). Today most of the time "prophesies" are very non-specific and very broad. That makes me question the validity of prophesy today. Why would God speak prophetically to His people when the vast majority of them do not even read the written God breathed Word He has already given us?

I'm not discounting the message behind this "prophecy". The message is true. But that does not make it a "prophecy". As it has been pointed out there is nothing in this that anyone reading their Bible doesn't already know.

God is not giving out new revelation. He has given us everything we need to know in His written Word. Period.

Am I saying that God is not speaking prophetically through and to His people today? No, but I am saying that He does not do it nearly as often as people think He is.

Our time would be better spent reading our Bibles than listening for the latest "prophecy" and "revelation".

 2010/11/1 15:40
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

David: My great grandfather once went to Mexico. While there he was asked to preach. He did not know any Spanish, not even enough to be able to ask where the restroom was. He rose to preach, I assume with interpreter at ready, and under the power of the Holy Spirit spoke in fluent Spanish. There was not need for an interpretation because the ones for whom the message was intended already understood it. I would assume the same about the day of Pentecost. Although, some understood nothing as they thought the men were drunk. However, it is also possible that what was spoken was in praise to God and not intended as a message to man as it would have been in an assembly. I often pray in tongues and no interpretation is necessary although people around me can hear me. The interpretation is necessary when what is spoken is a message for the assembly, otherwise the entire message would be in vain (very loose paraphrase of Paul's comments).


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Travis

 2010/11/1 19:02Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: kingjimmy

Quote:
kingjimmy wrote:
A good word in general, but nothing to "write home about."



A lot of us who study Revelation would probably say what you have said, but to those who don’t, perhaps this was like clear spring water to them!!

I hope you understand my heart here Jimmy but we can discourage younger ones in the Lord when we make comments like that about someone else’s prophesy, it elevates us and tears the others down.

To God be all the glory!

I humbly submit this to you in Jesus name,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2010/11/1 19:26Profile





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