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Discussion Forum : Devotional Thoughts : "Come Smell Lazarus" - Whitefield

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PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
George Whitefield was confused between the two, But he was a great saint of God nonetheless and God is willing to use such people however wrong in their doctrine than someone who is right on doctrine but a false proffesor.


Yes, that's exactly how I feel about Wesley and Finney, but God used them too nonetheless. Go figure ;)

Seriously, though - with a comment like that, it's too bad the Body of Christ didn't have you around a few centuries earlier; you could have set other "false professing" guys like Spurgeon and McCheyne straight too.


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Paul Frederick West

 2010/10/17 17:51Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: "Come Smell Lazarus" - Whitefield

Quote:
Was he bound hand and foot with graveclothes? So art thou bound hand and foot with thy corruptions; and as a stone was laid on the sepulchre, so there is a stone of unbelief upon thy stupid heart.



It seems that Whitefield was commissioned, like Paul, to deliver men from blindness of heart;

But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
(Acts 26:16-18)

Satan's supreme tactic is to keep a man ignorant (stupid heart) of truth and to hide from him his own spiritual condition. I think Whitefield understood this and relied on the truth and the power of the Holy Spirit to bring the inward operation of spiritual enlightenment needed for men to come out of the tomb. We would be wise to follow his lead.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2010/10/17 18:34Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re: "Come Smell Lazarus" - Whitefield

Quote:
"Thou mayest try the power of thy boasted free will, and the force and energy of moral persuasion and rational arguments (which, without doubt, have their proper place in religion); but all thy efforts, exerted with never so much vigor, will prove quite fruitless and abortive, till that same Jesus, who said ‘take away the stone” and cried “Lazarus, come forth,” also quicken you. This is grace, graciously offered, and grace graciously applied."



Having read Wesley and Whitefield somewhat, it seems they fiercly endeavored to convince the masses, through God's Spirit and power, of the need for the new birth from above, as opposed to relying on their own dead religious traditions or works. That seems to have been the underlying theme of their preaching to the lost, and that should be ours as well in these dark times of deception.

Notice that in the above quote Whitefiel says that "freewill" has a proper place in religion. But if we trust in that we are doomed. The emphasis has to be upon Christ and His power and enabling grace. Again, it seems that in those days, like today, the masses where trusting in their own human efforts to save them, instead of looking to Christ alone and what He will do in the new birth(nothing short of a miracle).


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Oracio

 2010/10/18 0:54Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

The difference between Human depravity and human inability can be illustrated by the story of the rich ruler in Luke 18:18-24

When Jesus was asked by the rich ruler what he must do to inherit eternal life, He answered: Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Please ponder the story, then ask this question. Did he go away sorrowful because he was unable to do what Jesus asked or did he not want to do it . In other words, was it a matter of ability or will. Did he not do it because he could not do it or because he was not willing to do it. Was he not willing to do it because he loved his money or he could not help but love his money.

You may say: he was in love with his money because of his depraved nature that he inherited from Adam.

If that is your answer, then you must explain how the disciples were able and willing to do the same, namely, to forsake all and follow Jesus, they too were the off-spring of Adam.

No matter what your theological conviction may lead you, you must confess that faith is a choice. If that man had faith in God, he would have given up his wealth and relied on God for provision.

If that rich ruler was under the teaching of Mr. Whitefield, he would have walked away blaming God for not loosening his bondage to his love for money.

We all agree that we are born in sin. We all agree that we have a fallen and depraved nature that creates bondage to the things of this world. But faith is the victory that overcomes the world. When we hear the words of the Lord Jesus that God who feeds the sparrows, dressed the lilies, and have our hairs numbered will take care of us if we but believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him.
That faith will have the victory of loosening this bondage to the world.

That is what I mean by the difference between human depravity and human inability. A man can be totally depraved but when given the opportunity makes a choice to surrender to God’s rule. This question was asked before. How did Satan fall when he was perfect. Yes there was a time when Satan was perfect not only in wisdom and beauty, but also in righteousness. When I say perfect here, I do not mean infinitly perfect as God is, but as perfect as a created being can be perfect. His perfection is finite.

“Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.”

There was a time when iniquity was found in Him. Why is it hard to believe that the power of choice that can give birth to iniquity in a perfectly righteous being when that being decides to rebel against God and have his own way, can not also give birth to faith when a being decides to submit to the rule of God when the latter is the most proper thing to do.



Seriously, though - with a comment like that, it's too bad the Body of Christ didn't have you around a few centuries earlier; you could have set other "false professing" guys like Spurgeon and McCheyne straight too.


I will address the latter part first. I did not say that George White field, Spurgeon and McCheyne were “false professing” guys. I am just saying that they were grievously mistaken, that’s all.

Now, the first part- Believe it or not, I strongly believe in the sovereignty of God.
As the wise preacher said: There is a time and a season for everything under heaven. In the time of the Reformation, and thereafter people needed such teaching since man turned Christian endeavor to a system of counting rosaries and climbing stairs, But we are in a time of great apostasy where grace is being used as a cloak for slackness, love for the world. Christ' imputed righteousness is nothing but a cover for sin and transgression.


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Fifi

 2010/10/18 14:09Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

I wanted to add a comment regarding the story of the rich ruler.

Jesus was not saying that selling everything he has is what saves him. To be sure about that, Christ sacrifice on the cross is the only satisfactory payment for sin. In order for any one to be forgiven since the first man that was ever created until the last, the penalty of their sin has to be laid on Christ.
This has to do with the nature of God and the nature of Christ. God is infinite. That means He does not live in time, That in turn means that if I had committed only one act of sin all my life, only one sin that I have done in the past and never committed another. Only one thought of covetousness, and never done another sin ever again. That one act of sin is being committed before God from eternity past till eternity future until it is laid on Christ.
There is no payment that man can give to satisfy God’ s justice but only the eternal sacrifice which is the blood of Christ.
This man giving up all his wealth can not buy his salvation, that is something only Christ can do, because of His infinite nature.

Now that we made this point clear, let us move to the condition that man must meat to have this salvation which Christ alone purchased applied to him.
Man must give everything that he holds dear in order to be partaker and a candidate for that salvation, even his own life. This command Christ gives not only to His disciples but to all who wish to follow Him.

I am afraid, this part of the bargain is being overlooked by many people who present the Gospel to others under the cloak of grace.

Even in times of revival, when heaven opens and the Spirit of God falls on the hearts of sinful man. The Spirit reveals that truth to the heart of man, that he has offended his creator and played god , that his sin being committed for eternity before a holy God, and there is nothing that man can do to satisfy this infinitely wrathful God. Man cries in despair; Who can deliver me, I am undone. That is why we hear lots of screaming and agony in times of revival. It is the cry of helplessness and hopelessness. That is the time, and not a second earlier, when man is given the good news that Christ is willing to take the wrath f God away if he believes on him.

May I say, that even then man has to make the decision to believe or not to believe. But who would refuse such an offer to escape from eternal judgment and refuse it. It would be like some one on the verge of death that is offered a chance to live, but infinitely more glorious. May I suggest that this is the true meaning of grace as offered in the Bible.
Not as our Sunday school teacher used to tell us. We are all like a bunch of teddy bears who look exactly alike inside and out, Then God blind -fold His omniscience and reaches with His hand, and wherever His hand lands, those are the teddy bears that are saved. That is election, we were told.
To be sure, God chooses people according to His own pleasure, But this pleasure is holy, and righteous , and just. God elects those whom He knows will come to Him through His Son. His for-knowledge and for-love go hand in hand.


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Fifi

 2010/10/18 15:05Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Even though I lean heavily toward classical Arminianism regarding "freewill", I can see how Arminianism and freewill, as well as Calvinism, can become something we idolize and worship above God Himself. It is those who are always trying to bring this dispute up time after time who I believe are in danger here; those who are so adamant about it that they will break close fellowship with those who disagree with them on this; who will not lovingly agree to disagree and move on. I believe much time is wasted arguing this issue and others. This is why we have all the thousands of denominations and divisions and why we see so little of the real power of Jesus Christ in our midst.

Many of us are familiar with the account of Whitefield's and Wesley's dispute and divisionj over this issue, and of their reconciliation late in life after years of contention. I have heard some Christians approve of that division, which is a sad thing for me to hear.


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Oracio

 2010/10/18 15:22Profile
UntoBabes
Member



Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1035
Oregon

 Re:

Oracio,

Divisions are not good in the body of Christ. I do not defend free-will for the sake of defending it. My concern is over true salvation that many people do not obtain due to their lack of full surrender to God because they are told by those who give them the Gospel that it is God's grace without anything to do on your part. I believe it is only God's grace, but given only to those who seek Him in truth willing to lay down their very lives. Indeed it is the essence of faith to believe that God is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him. But man is told that he can not seek God, then he will not seek Him.


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Fifi

 2010/10/18 15:46Profile





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