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nearthecross
Member



Joined: 2009/5/13
Posts: 74


 Re:

Quote:
The first speaker I had on the site was Leonard Ravenhill, the second A.W. Tozer and the third: T. Austin Sparks. These men were not reformed but men who "knew" God.



No, I was not particularly referring to any of those three. Sparks I have personally never listened to, so I wouldn't know about his life, but as for the other two I would agree with you that these were anointed men who were mightily used of God.

But as for your statement:

Quote:
If you claim men like this who were so used of God are ministers of condemnation then I am very sad for you.



I plead with you to please come to your senses. This is the exact same thing that followers of Benny Hinn and other false prophets say when one points out their heretical doctrines and inconsistencies. With all due respect, since when was "being used of God" the measuring stick for a true man of God? King Saul was used of God, Balaam was used of God, even Judas Iscariot himself was greatly used of the Lord to accomplish His purposes. Yet we know the outcome and fruit of these men's lives and ministries. I'm certain you would never feature any of their articles or sermons on Sermonindex, had they any.

I ask you to please follow the same standard with any of the men on this website that you highly esteem. If you really love truth you will set aside your emotions, traditions, and any romanticized view you may have of these preachers and compare their teachings with the Bible.

The Scriptures clearly exhort us to examine everything in the light of the Word. Paul didn't get angry with the Bereans for searching the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. He didn't become grieved that they didn't recognize just how mightily the Lord had used him. On the contrary, the author of Acts tells us that they were "more noble" than the rest. Paul himself warned the early Christians of the leaven of false teachers and false teaching, and never ceased to admonish them day and night with tears.

Brother Greg, my admonishment to you still stands. You can take it or leave it, accept it or reject it. That's between you and the Lord. What worries me, though, is the dangerous repercussions your decisions will have upon you and your ministry, and the many genuine believers that visit this site.

May the Lord help you, give you wisdom and discernment, and continue to conform you to His image. You are in my prayers.

 2010/10/6 1:37Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i had a close relationship with len ravenhill for a few years and he told me not to take anything any preacher said as gospel but to check it out with the scriptures and he said to check him especially for we are all human and subject to gross error with a pure heart.when you take a few minutes to type critical things about others without spending at least that amount of time in prayer for that brother or sister than you are on dangerous grounds with God who hates religeous snobs.(pharisees)love has power to cover a multitude of sins but anger,strife,bitterness or a critical spirit does absolutely no good except it harms the one who deals in them.brothers let us love one another for everyone who loves is born of God and knoweth God and he who loveth not knoweth not God for God is love.jimp

 2010/10/6 2:55Profile
knitefall
Member



Joined: 2010/3/2
Posts: 252


 Re:

eh? like I said,

look at the evidence for a life change that was mentioned. I hope it is true. We tried to have him to discuss his actions and statements over the air but he refuses.

We dealt with him for weeks because the dumb church sheep were buying into the purpose driven lie, hook line and sinker.

Someone had to say something! You'd be surprised the things hidden between those lines in that book and other works done by the man.

Also, as I said in sorts, pray for him that this 'life change' be true. Otherwise, deal with the fruits like a good boy and good girl of the Word would do.

 2010/10/6 17:50Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re:

Rick Warren has given millions
to missions in Africa for clean
water, vaccines, school supplies
and books. Many thousands of
African children have these
necessities because Rick Warren
gave selflessly and generously.
He gives 90% of the royalties
earned from his book away.
He repaid more than 20 years
of salary back to Saddleback
Church when GOD made his
book a success!!

Know the character of the man
before you say a critical word !!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2010/10/6 18:05Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


 Re:

Hi jimp...

Quote:
hi, i had a close relationship with len ravenhill for a few years and he told me not to take anything any preacher said as gospel but to check it out with the scriptures and he said to check him especially for we are all human and subject to gross error with a pure heart.



When I met with Brother Ravenhill in his home, he offered me a very similar exhortation. I was just a young teenage boy when I met with him shortly before he died, and he urged to me test everything that I have ever been taught...or would ever be taught again.

We should never fear examining the specific teachings and statements of a public preacher. However, we need to be very careful to get it right. If we are going to make public allegations, we need to make sure that we haven't just based them upon allegations that we obtained from a website or book that is critical of that person. We should endeavor to study or research into the matter ourselves...and make every effort to obtain clarity. This can mean seeking out to contact that person for clarity...or gentle restoration (if clarity proves that it is necessary).

I hope that no one else suspects that this is any sort of "muddying the water." Rather, it is separating through the mud to ascertain what is true and what is myth. We owe it to our faithful and omnipresent God to be correct before we entertain or spread EVERY allegation or insinuation.

I am not a "fan" of Rick Warren, but I am not a rhetorical assassin either. I've just read a lot of allegations and insinuations about the man which I don't know to be true or not. I think that we should be extremely careful before we go out and shoot arrows at someone who calls himself a brother. It may turn out that we are wrong in our evaluation...or that this person may only be flawed in only certain aspects of his doctrinal views.

If he is as wrong as some suggest, I wonder how many people have made the effort to "gently restore" him?


_________________
Christopher

 2010/10/6 18:51Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If you really love truth you will set aside your emotions, traditions, and any romanticized view you may have of these preachers and compare their teachings with the Bible.



Brother, can you list the "bad" preachers?

 2010/10/6 20:04









 What's our standard?

Quote:
Rick Warren has given millions to missions in Africa for clean water, vaccines, school supplies and books. Many thousands of African children have these necessities because Rick Warren gave selflessly and generously. He gives 90% of the royalties earned from his book away. He repaid more than 20 years of salary back to Saddleback Church when GOD made his book a success!!



Oprah's done more than that. And given away quite a bit more money as well. Should we judge her teachings about Christ and God trustworthy because of her works?

What standard are we using? The Bible or something else? Even if Rick Warren gave all his money away and lived in complete poverty, his teaching would still not be sound or healthy for the hungry seeker. I have a convent of Buddhists right down the street from me who have given up everything in order to please their god. Should I consider that they maybe have a truth that I don't? Or should I be slow or hesitant to speak that they have a different Gospel than the one I received from Christ Jesus and the disciples?

Quote:
If he is as wrong as some suggest, I wonder how many people have made the effort to "gently restore" him?



I'd be willing to bet almost 100% people have tried to correct him. God always sends prophets to speak the truth to men in his position and with his influence. I know for a fact men in similar positions to his have been spoken to of the error of their ways, but to little or no avail. I would find it very unlikely and highly improbable that he has not been spoken to in love by a man of God in all of this time.
And let's be real for a second. IF (that's a big if too) you were somehow able to speak with him, and say something along the lines of,

"You know, Mr. Warren, you're a really nice and generous guy, and I believe that you're sincere with your message, and you really do want to follow God, but you've got it all wrong man. Your teaching doesn't line up with what Christ and the apostles taught. Your book has more to do with marketing than the Bible. You've lied in public to save your own face and the face of your church organization. You need to repent and get on the right track. I think you should recall all your books, because they're dangerous to those hungry for truth, who don't know enough Gospel to separate the poison from the water."

IF you were able to get that far, (which I do honestly believe other men have) though I can't speak for Mr. Warren, I have the feeling he would respectfully disagree, and probably with the reasons, such as, "Look how many people have bought the book, and how many churches have been blessed by it" (remember, Purpose Driven is marketing, so success and numbers = blessing). His gospel has been self fulfilling. Why should he believe that he's under a strong delusion from the Lord?

If you think this is far fetched, or unreal, look at all the other "giants" and the media darlings America has seen as a representation of Christianity over the last few decades. Do you think they weren't warned as well in love? What happened to them?

Yes, we need to pray very sincerely that Warren truly has repented and believe that God will not continue to use him as a judgement on the undiscerning church, and hope that he doesn't fall like other men before him.

But we should never gradually dance around error, and not answer questions about a person's teaching especially when their harmful to those ignorant of the truth. This most certainly is not "having grace" as some call it. Not at all.

This is not mudslinging or stone throwing. I want with my whole heart for Mr. Warren to realize the error of his teaching and repent. That would make me SO happy. But because I can't share the truth with him personally, doesn't mean I just won't speak the truth, especially when pages like this can come up from Google searches and what not.

He's an extremely nice guy, who is trying to do the work of God, but he's wrong. He needs to turn to the Scriptures and use his influence for the real Gospel, not the Purpose Driven one.

 2010/10/6 20:05









 Re:

Quote:
When I met with Brother Ravenhill in his home, he offered me a very similar exhortation. I was just a young teenage boy when I met with him shortly before he died, and he urged to me test everything that I have ever been taught...or would ever be taught again.

Truly what sound advice!

What a waste of time being taught only to have it all undone and counted as dung. I have never been so stripped down to the bare wires and everything that I believe is checked and rechecked by the Holy Ghost. Whenever I think I am right, most likely it's wrong. Love thinketh no ill towards it's neighbour. Faith worketh by love. If the love component is not there or active with our faith it's not faith. Love must be the active ingredient in our faith. It's what caused our Lord to do obey God, for He loved His Father.

 2010/10/6 20:15
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

Quote from Greg

"I just added a message Rick Warren preached at the desiring God conference (John Piper's) to sermonindex.net

I used to have a very bad view of Rick Warren but after spending some time following what he is saying and hearing his heart I realize I mis-judged him. He is not perfect but neither am I. I can learn much from Rick Warren."


I cannot believe this. Yes, we are not perfect..so does that mean we accept false teachers?! This is a very wrong statement and shows no discernment. Paul was very zelouse in exposing the false. Check out the book of Gal. Paul didn't take light with false doctrines.

Rick Warren is very known with teaming up with "world religion". And I see that the leaven of Warren has spread now among those who are known to "listen to real truth and preachers". This is a great grievance to me. I see apostacy has even spread among those who are more considered to be "in the truth". This is really outragoes. I posted here before that I had a dream about Piper and I saw Piper with the word PRIDE written above his head. And this was way before I heard that Piper did a conference with Rick Warren. Piper have confess to pride too. But it seems he still in delusion. First delusion with Mark Driscoll and now with Warren. This is very sad to see and many people are falling for the lie. Because Piper is now promoting Warren many Christians think its O.k. to listen to Warren. Piper is leading many into delusion. Piper needs to repent.

Greg, I can't believe what you shared. My heart is really broken over you. I pray that the Lord will open your eyes and deliver you from delusion.

Like brother Aaron, I cannot endorse S.I any longer. I will no longer blog here.

In Christ, Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2010/10/6 20:32Profile
DesertRose
Member



Joined: 2007/8/8
Posts: 123
Boston.MA

 Re: Rick Warren

He is a lightning rod for controversy. Here's more.

Front Page Magazine (frontpagemag.com) has branded Pastor Rick Warren a "shill for terror."because Warren is listed on the "Speakers Corner" of a Muslim group that some have linked to terror.He is fully aware of how he is being portrayed on the site but refuses to demand its deletion and offers no apology for its existence. Pastor Warren has become a shill for Islamic terror.

 2010/10/6 20:54Profile





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