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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada


Jimm said,

To refuse to fellowship together with those who are really saved, and live within proximity to you, is nothing less than outright error, and without any Biblical support whatsoever.

Koheleth said, "You are right! Does anyone know why they won't fellowship with us?"

Amen. Good word, Koheleth.

Koheleth said, "So, I don't think you are right to point that finger of divisiveness one way. In fact, you are wrong and need to stop accusing people without knowing their situation. You have become a judge, brother, and no longer an exhorter."

I agree with Koheleth's assessment, Jimmy. I think this thread has been unworthy of you.

But maybe it reveals something in your heart that you need to be seeking God about.

Allan Halton

 2010/10/3 21:57Profile


PILGRIM SAID, "Early church was all house churches. What do you think of that?"

Pilgrim, who told you that?

How about considering the reason why, when and if this happened.

What about in I Corinthians near the 11th chapter, Paul mentions some in assembly getting drunk and he basically writes, " go home and do that."

i have serious trouble believing that the early church was ever small enough for all to fit in one house.
(they often met in the open and not in buildings at all: porches, courtyards, groves, outdoor assembly areas, etc.

The First primitive church in Jerusalem was in very short order numbering well over 8,000 including women and chuldren.

When pronounced anathema at the temple:
~they could no longer meet on Solomon's porch
~they were cut off from the orthodox Jewish community
~they were considered dead men cursed of God already by the Jews that lived around them (No jobs, no commerce with them allowed, etc.)
THEY WERE FORCED to share all things in common, meet in seperate groups in houses and so on.

Being seperate from any other follower of Jesus is never God's ideal.

They were told to go and make disciples and rather than following through, they huddled together in one group in Jerusalem.

There are two sides to this:

If one puts a thousand to flight, and two 5x that, what would 8000+ do? And if the growth were to continue, then what?

They were scattered through persecution, and as they went, they 'gossiped' about Jesus.

The more members of the Body of Christ united together, the more (Kingdom) building should get done.

The question to be asking is,
if the Lord is not adding to our numbers daily,
what's wrong ? ? ?
. . . because it certainly is not the Lord failing us.

In seperating off from other saints . . .oh, i'm not going to get started right now.
i do not at all advocate any 'church' that has a demonational headquarters dictating dues either.
WE are all bleaters and there is one Great Shepherd!

God Bless,

 2010/10/3 22:26

Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California


KingJimmy has not been judgmental at all, nor has he been finger pointing - he did write a wonderful article that pointed out an all too common problem among many "out of church" "anti-IC" camps. He even admitted that he himself has once been in the same error that many here seem to be stuck in bondage to.

I understand completely where most reponders are coming from - 4 years ago I would have been arm and arm with you throwing stones at KingJimmy and gnashing my teeth at his article.

I think the problem is that instead of being open to their error many are trying desperately but unsuccessfully to defend their un-biblical actions and attitudes. And in turn attack the person who has delivered the word of exhortation and correction. They in fact are doing the same thing they accuse many IC believers of doing to them. This is truly a sad and shameful display. Please allow God to convict your heart on this matter.

Can you admit that there is a possibility you are in error blinded by a critical and judgmental spirit? If the answer is yes and you can admit that, then please seek God EARNESTLY and ask Him to reveal to you if this is the case and to open your eyes to the truth. If not, you can't even admit the possibility of error and a blinding spirit, then pride may be your bigger issue at this point.

Oh the multitude in the IC that could be reached for the glory of God if people could be set free from the judgment and criticism! If we could only reach out to those in the IC with love, grace, kindness, friendship and mercy we could see revival of holiness and the truth of the gospel in the IC churches.

Patrick Ersig

 2010/10/3 22:36Profile


Yes, sure. They met in the open and they met in homes and Paul preached in synagogues. You will see as you read the following scriptures that they mostly met in homes.

Many of the 3,000 that repented and were saved in regard to Peter's preaching on Pentecost, were visiting Jerusalem from many different regions and went back to their home city, afterwards. So, I don't disagree with you. I would say from reading Acts that mostly homes were used and the synagogue was mostly attended to by Paul to evangelize.

But, there was certainly no mindset, at least that we read of regarding building a central place to house 1000s of Believers. I have provided scriptures for you which emphasize meeting in homes and some scriptures regarding open meetings.

Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 14:1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul was kicked out of the synagogue many times and this particular time he left (below).

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Act 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
Act 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Act 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

Act 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Phm 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

 2010/10/3 23:04


I hear completely what Jimmy is saying.

However, the letter that was written was quite long and no doubt was skimmed over quickly and quickly missed many points that Jim is NOT saying and points that he was saying.

Those that are offended are writing as if protecting a religion as if the "remnant" was some sect that needs protecting. Some of the answers here is simply foolish. Because the man is not saying anything against anyone who attends house Churches, or wherever believers meet together.

I don't believe that Jim is against the meaning of the word remnant and what it may even entail, however, how I gather in the reading of his lecture was that he believes that those who think they don't need other believers who call themselves the remnant are indeed in error, and rightly so. Even Paul highlighted certain individuals walking after their own vain imagination doing the same thing in thinking that they don't need to assemble with any body of believers whether that place is in a barn, house, or at Times Square Church.

Don't be offended by the use of this word remnant here.

And some of you are quoting the word as if the brother just got born again. The man is well versed in the scriptures and knows and understands the foundational teachings of the Apostles and Jesus Christ the corner stone.

Lets all be like lawyers, read the fine print slowly and try to get the drift of what is being said instead of speed reading and missing the point entirely.

 2010/10/3 23:15


Oh the multitude in the IC that could be reached for the glory of God if people could be set free from the judgment and criticism! If we could only reach out to those in the IC with love, grace, kindness, friendship and mercy we could see revival of holiness and the truth of the gospel in the IC churches.

This is getting a bit exasperating. Your choice of words, (throwing stones and anti-IC) are interesting. I am anti-catholic church but I am not anti-catholic people. But the Romish church will characterize you as anti-catholic none the less.

We are having a discussion with Jimmy and to characterize it as one side that is throwing stones is not really helpful. Anti-IC is not a sin, the last time I checked. No one has to love the IC, but we are called to love people. Now, on with my thought.

Many that are outside the church have tried to minister to the people in the IC, and they have been run out of town. Why, because they won't play the game and they are considered a threat to the leadership because people in the congregation are getting blessed by the what the Word really says, and are getting freed from the control and fear of man. And all of this just happens when the pure Word is expounded. When the leadership finds out that people are starting to see and believe things in the Bible that do not support what the leadership is teaching, stuff happens.

This is how most people know it is time to leave. Some get kicked out, others, wishing to avoid conflict know that they should just leave quietly.

Here is one rule that everyone should keep in mind.


If you don't believe me, suggest to the leadership that they consider jettisoning their salaries and getting a job and living by faith.

Once you "touch" the money, you are considered and enemy. That is a fact of the religious system.

Sad isn't it?

I know this from experience and God's Word.

 2010/10/3 23:19

Joined: 2008/10/2
Posts: 203


Here's the type of church which God chose to revive in the Hebrides revival. Does it sound like some of what we're seeing today ?

"In 1949, the local presbytery issued a proclamation to be read on a certain Sunday in all the Free Churches on the Island of Lewis. This proclamation called the people to consider the "low state of vital religion . . . throughout the land . . . and the present dispensation of Divine displeasure . . . due to growing carelessness toward public worship . . . and the growing influence of the spirit of pleasure which has taken growing hold of the younger generation" (excerpt from another Sermon Index page)

It reminds me of the Lord's words to the church of Sardis.....

1"To the angel[a] of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b]of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God.

Where there is 'life' there is hope....where there is a spark, there is the opportunity for the Spirit of God to fan the flame into a roaring fire. Let's continue to pray that he will do it again !

In Jesus,

 2010/10/3 23:21Profile


snufulapagus and Jimmy,

Please tell us who these people are that call themselves the Remnant and say they don't need anyone. You never mentioned who they are. That might clear some things up.

 2010/10/3 23:21


I think the problem is that instead of being open to their error many are trying desperately but unsuccessfully to defend their un-biblical actions and attitudes. ~Patrick Ersig

Sorta like the Krump dancing you were promoting?

 2010/10/3 23:23


Please tell us who these people are that call themselves the Remnant and say they don't need anyone. You never mentioned who they are. That might clear some things up.

[email protected], oh don't put my name nick along side Jim, he wouldn't like that, in fact no one would. :-)

I was merely interpreting what the brother was saying. What caused brother Jim to write it, I have no idea, so I don't know who these people are that don't need the body of Christ. I haven't met anyone that fits this bill. I have met those that were half hearted, never gave their hearts completely to the Lord, they heard something about hell and it scared them and then it wore away and you never see them again, but other than that, I don't know of any.

 2010/10/3 23:31

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