| Re: |
Quote: A refreshing AMEN!
If you want to call the Remnant, the Body of Christ, I can see that, it still boils down to the same thing. Its still the who-so-ever, the hungry, the thirsty, the seeker. Its still those who will worship the Lord their God with their whole hearts and whose knee is not bowed to Baal........brother Frank
| 2010/10/11 21:19|
| Re: Coming Out of The Church: The Remnant Heresy|
Amos 8:11-12 has come to pass upon the United States. There is a famine in the land for the words of God and many are starving for want. It was heresy in the church that caused me to consider seperating from Chrisitan fellowship. I agree with you that the Bible encourages us to fellowship with true believers and that we should seek fellowship. I was faced with this situation this year. I decided to leave the organized church and here are the reasons:
1. Abandonment of the Authorized King James Bible for hundreds of corrupt Bible versions (they continue to get more apostate with every new version released). Also, these versions cause much confusion concerning the innerancy of Gods word. For more info on this issue I encourage you to go to contendingfortruth.com and type in KJV in the search box and listen to the audio message.
2. Eucumenicalism - The church I was attending was becoming more Roman Catholic every day with teachings on the eucharist, experiential mysticism, monastic practices as well as introduction of rock music.
3. Watered down gospel and preaching with very little Bible teaching ( we studied every new Christian book released instead of studying the Bible).
4. Organizational church structure and 501c3 corporate status - Because of these things the preaching of truth was suppressed ( you can find more 501c3 corporation churches by visiting contendingfortruth.com and searching for 501c3.
5. Total lack of Biblical discernment among the clergy and laity.
These are a few reasons I abandoned the organized church. After leaving I was left with two choices: find a non 501c3, KJV Bible Believing, independent church or start or find a home church. After much searching through the internet and making phone calls I found an independent KJV Bible believing church. Unfortunately, it is a 501c3 corporation church, but is the best I could do. I have been attending this church for about two months now. I hope this is a help to others.
| 2012/5/11 14:55||Profile|
| Re: |
Haven't been around for awhile, but this was a great first article to read! Thanks alot Dave for bringing this old thread back up... The points you made are great and just as valid, too.
Jimmy, your opening article is SO refreshing and SO needed today. I can see that it is easily misrepresented, but nevertheless the message is there. I know that the Lord certainly uses house churches, but it depends on your definition of a "house-church"...everyone has their own idea, and certainly not all of them are blessed by Him. God bless you for putting yourself out there to say this.
| 2012/5/12 13:39||Profile|
| Re: |
There was an article posted a few weeks ago by A. W. Tozer entitled The Loneliness of the Saint. I have also seen this article listed under The Saint Must Walk Alone. In the article Tozer speaks of those believers who have had an authetic experience with Jesus Christ. Theyhgave come into that marvelous experience of knowing Jesus more intimately. This saints seek fellowship with other lijeminded believers. But such fellowship is rare in the organized church. It may be this reason that some choose to leave the organized church to go to the wilderness. To find mire intimate fellowship with Jesus.
I do not agree that one leaving the church to seek a remnant is heresy. If that be the case then one woukd have to call every move of God from the time of Oentacostal til now heretical.
Let's quickly review. Jesus and his disciples, heretics. First century church, heretics. Various groups that sprung up to combat the error of Rome, heretics. Reformers, heretics. Anabaptist, heretics. And do forth. Frankly those of us on this forum, heretics.
Those who choose to follow Jesus will be known as heretics by the organized church.
This is Bearmaster the heretic standing down.
| 2012/5/12 14:01|
| Re: |
I go to a church with about 3,000-4,000 in weekly attendance during our Sunday services. We are highly organized. And we are very big. Yet in spite of all that, for the nearly 15 years I've been a Christian, I have yet to ever belong to such an awesome community of saints. And I see the Lord clearly in our midst, doing an awesome work. Souls are being saved, lives are being changed, and people are growing in their faith.
In the midst of everything the Lord is doing in our midst, I have helped form two small groups. One for 20 & 30 somethings, another for guys in high school. I am in the process of launching a third group. My 20 & 30 somethings group is made up of about a dozen or so people. The high school group is made up of about 8. One group meets at a Panera Bread. The other group meets at a Taco Bell. The new group I'm launching will meet at a Starbucks. The Lord is forming genuine Christian community in our midst, and it is happening at a level that is beyond my ability to lead, and our ability to organize. The organizational dynamic of these things just forms a framework upon which the rest of the body can grow. It is just a skeleton upon which the larger body grows. And grow it continues to do.
For those of you who are leaving the church because you feel it is too compromised, too organized, too big, or is using the wrong translation of the Bible... or whatever other reason you invent to "come out of her," I cannot help but grieve for you. But at the same time, I cannot but be happy to see you go. Because you are a schismatic with whom I have little patience to endure. You hinder instead of helping the body of Christ. And, you have a wound you refuse to receive treatment for, and it makes it almost impossible to minister to you. While you run away to play the role of a self-absorbed wilderness prophet and to play church, "I will call out to you" to drop your ego, humble yourself, and come back to the body of Christ wherever she may be. I will call you to come back and take on the role of a servant, and to follow me as I follow Christ.
| 2012/5/12 16:42||Profile|
| Re: |
"or those of you who are leaving the church because you feel it is too compromised, too organized, too big, or is using the wrong translation of the Bible... or whatever other reason you invent to "come out of her," I cannot help but grieve for you. But at the same time, I cannot but be happy to see you go. Because you are a schismatic with whom I have little patience to endure. You hinder instead of helping the body of Christ. And, you have a wound you refuse to receive treatment for, and it makes it almost impossible to minister to you. While you run away to play the role of a self-absorbed wilderness prophet and to play church, "I will call out to you" to drop your ego, humble yourself, and come back to the body of Christ wherever she may be. I will call you to come back and take on the role of a servant, and to follow me as I follow Christ."
Pure rubbish from the roman catholic pits of hell jimmy. Shame on you.
| 2012/5/12 17:10|
| Re: |
If you are saved, love the Lord and love your neighbor as yourself, and if the life of Christ is in you, you will never be alone long. If you are a mature saint you will lead others to the Lord and you will form and be a part of Christian community. Some of you have been alone a while and have had very sporadic fellowship because your Christian walk isn't what you imagine it to be. And you are in a place that the Lord has not brought you. The glory for you has long departed. No wonder you haven't led anybody to the Lord in years, and no wonder you can't play nice with your brethren.
| 2012/5/12 17:25||Profile|
| Re: Kingjimmy|
Brother I praise God you are in a blessed church situation where God is using you. But respectfully I must disagree with the thrust of your post. You assume that anyone who leaves the church (I assume you mean organized church) is some sort of a wounded schisnatic. You make a blanket judgement that is not valid.
What about situations where one is in a church and the church is departing a Biblical path? If a saint is in such a church and conscience compels them to leave are they schismatic? What about a group if people who leave to start a house church or new work in an area for outreach? Are they being schismsti? Are they wounded?
Brother not everyone who leaves the traditional organized church is a wounded schismatic. Granted there are a few. But there are other reasons why one may choose to leave a traditional church and seek fellowship through other means.
What if Art Katz whom you respect so highly? In a sense he was a renegade as he did not fit into a traditional church model. Granted be had associations with many traditional church leaders. Yet by your own definition it could be said he was a wounded schismatic because of the community he started up there in rural Minnesota. I know you do not believe this. Or at least I do not think you believe this.
Brother one could say that peoples such as George Whitfield, the Wesleys, Jonathan Edwards, David Brainard were schismatic because they left the organized church. Except in the case of these men they were forced out of the church.
Jimmy I woukd like to suggest there are valid reasons why people leave a church. Not everyone who leaves the established church is some wounded schismatic nursing a wound. But many are in the wilderness advancing the kingdom purposes of Christ. I, myself, being one of them.
| 2012/5/12 17:41|
| Re: |
While you run away to play the role of a self-absorbed wilderness prophet and to play church, "I will call out to you" to drop your ego, humble yourself, and come back to the body of Christ wherever she may be.
Really brother? Drop our egos?
Physician heal thy self, read your posts on being a 30 year old virgin and the above on how many 'wonderful things' (ie the Taco Bell and Panera groups) you have done and then come back into this thread and honestly tell me to drop MY ego.
Then read the New Testament and notice how after Jesus healed someone or fed someone He would tell them "shhhhh, don't tell anyone".
I read your virginity post and grieved over it, you just sacrificed all of these years for Christ (to be sure an honorable thing) and then chose to blog about it to be honored by men and squandered your heavenly reward.
Please, get the tree out of your eye and then come help me with my speck.
Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand (DON'T LET THIS BODY MEMBER KNOW WHAT THAT BODY MEMBER) is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ~Mt 6:1-4
| 2012/5/12 17:43||Profile|
| Re: |
Brother jimmy, although your intention may be good but your aim is WAY off. I am totally grieved by the situation of the church in America. My pastor quotes from other authors, not dead ones either, and entices us to allow Jesus to be our "teacher". We live in a world where we are swimming upstream while the church says we are headed the wrong way. Sadly it is the total opposite. Now granted there is a lot God is doing that we may not see here. I hope so. All I know that this current system is flawed and we are over cooked. Sometimes silence on our opinions should be heeded.
| 2012/5/12 18:01||Profile|