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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Eternity in Heaven?

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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Indeed. It's a rather pagan concept in my opinion. Where exactly it crept into Christian doctrine historically, I'm uncertain. My thought is that it probably crept in through by and large doctrinal neglect, especially amongst ministers that tend to shun eschatology altogether in their teaching. Thus, some sort of watered down doctrine has been produced. I've seen this teaching about "heaven" manifest even in preachers who are very Biblically minded in their preaching i.e. Paul Washer.

In my opinion, greater attention should be given to studying and preaching of eschatology. While it can be a very tricky subject, one cannot honestly preach about "eternity" without giving serious attention to doctrines associated with it. Otherwise, you get vague romantic notions of eternity, that aren't grounded in truth. Thus we speak about spending eternity in heaven.


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Jimmy H

 2010/9/21 12:14Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Interesting. I have about 40-50 pages left in Louis Berkhof's Systematic Theology. I'm in the section on eschatology. He points out that it has been generally neglected throughout history compared to the other areas of theology.

I'll be interested to read what he has to say on the "eternal state" (as it is usually called in Systematics).


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Taylor Otwell

 2010/9/21 12:51Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Yeah, let me know what Berkhof says about it. I had his Systematic Theology once upon a time, but I only read what was required for me to read in my theology classes in Bible college. I don't think we looked at what he said about eschatology though.


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Jimmy H

 2010/9/21 13:21Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If we are asleep in Jesus and where Jesus is so are we, and where we are so is He, birthed of the Father by the Christ in us, then where are we? If Jesus is going to bring those that are asleep, dead, where is He coming from? If we are with Him in the heavenlies already and also when we are asleep in Him, When He comes with those that are to be resurrected first, which sleep in Christ, the body is resurrected physically, the spirit and soul are already resurrected and in Him, then body, soul and spirit will be with Christ when He comes to rule and reign on this earth for 1000 years, this assuredly is a Physical place we will be with Him, on this earth, which will become uninhabitable for those that are not in Christ or the Israel of God whom the New Covenant has taken place and we will all live physically on this earth and even the Son will turn all things back to God the Father who has son's by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father, Christ in us, living in His House and those that are His people living on this earth.

It looks like, for a while those (asleep in Christ), will be in the heavenlies, but that is not where we will stay. Maybe this is where this preaching of living in heaven forever comes from.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Where He goes we will go. 1 John 4:17-19 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: (((because as he is, so are we in this world.))) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.

Sorry for all the corrections and additions, but it just keeps coming.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/9/22 14:11Profile
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but

"For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." Phil 3:20-21 (KJV)

We are citzens of heaven. We are come to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God (Heb 12.22). We are to be clothed with a house from heaven (2 Cor 5.2)

And God Himself:
"in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" Eph 1:8-11 (KJV)

We are His heavenly people, There will be new heavens and a new earth, but His bride will be forever with Him and will see His face.

Christ will receive His earthly kingdom on this present earth for 1000 years, but this will be for Israel and administered through Jerusalem.

Ar the end of the 1000 years, at the dispensation of the fullness of times, Christ will deliver up the kingdom to the father, having already gathered us, His heavenly saints, that God might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth. Then God will be all in all.

This is my how understand the sciptures and what I believe.


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david

 2010/9/22 20:29Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Revelation 21:10-11 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Is this not the Heavenly Jerusalem come down to earth where Jesus will rule for 1000 years on the Throne of David, which leads to the Great White Throne Judgement of those who are not the Bride of Christ or the Isreal of God His people?

The son's of God have a house to live in which Christ is preparing a place for us in the Father's House, which is the New Holy Jerusalem come down to earth and there we will be with God serving Him forever.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/9/22 22:48Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

1 Corinthians 2:9

But as it is written: “ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”


Wow. Just think... No eye has seen, no ear has heard, nor nothing that we can comprehend awaits us in eternity.

We serve an AWESOME GOD!


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Christiaan

 2010/9/22 23:50Profile
davidc
Member



Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272
France

 Re:

Revelation 21:10-11 The holy Jerusalem
Is this not the Heavenly Jerusalem come down to earth where Jesus will rule for 1000 years on the Throne of David, which leads to the Great White Throne Judgement of those who are not the Bride of Christ or the Isreal of God His people?

If you work back from this passage, you will see in chap 21 v1 that this new Jerusalem is in the new earth.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea Rev 21:1 (KJV)

Before this, the old heaven and earth fled away at the sight of Him that sat om the great white throne chap 20 v 11

Before this last judgement, there are 1000 years reign of Christ on the throne of David, which the old testament prophets prophesied of and the faithful remnant of Israel waited for.

The clear order of events in from chapter 19 is:

The Second coming of Christ to the earth to judge the beast and the false prophet (chap19 vs 11 to 21)

The binding of Satan for 1000 years (chap 20 vs 1 to 3)
The first resurrection of saints who had not received the beasts mark during the 7 years tribulation time (20 vs 4 to 6) (These are the saints who will reign with Christ for the 1000 years of His kingdom (v6))

End of the 1000 years, Satan loosed to gather an army against Jerusalem. But cast into the lake of fire ( vs 7 to 10)

The Great White Throne judgement. First heaven and earth fled away (vs 11 to 15)

New heaven and new earth. New Jerusalem comes down to the new earth from God. This is the bride, the Lamb's wife, the church.

It is in this way that God gathers together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth. Then God will be all in all.

(Love to read your postings Phillip)
David


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david

 2010/9/23 18:06Profile





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