| Re: |
I find these pastor's salaries grossly out of proportion.
Peter ran the first megachurch and handled a huge budget from the proceeds of the sales of the believers posessions yet he could claim:
Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. (Acts 3:6)
Should not this teach us a lesson?
I heard the story of an Argentian pastor of a 10000+ congregation who works full time in menial job to support himself.
Let the pastor earn his due, but let his salary not give any reason for offense to anyone.
| 2010/9/16 16:45||Profile|
| Re: |
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. - Matthew 7:12
| 2010/9/16 16:55|
| Re: |
I remember speaking with an independent missionary evangelist about his experiences in other countries.
This evangelist traveled to some foreign communities where the majority was living in extreme poverty. Yet the denominational missionaries were living in lavish homes with all of their needs taken care of. They had fancy appliances, air conditioning, several cars, children educated in private schools, telephones in every room, international cell phones for every family member and as many computers as family members!
Oddly enough, the congregation STILL took up an offering and paid the pastor a small salary (even though his funding was adequate for years).
I remember how this was a stark contrast to some of the pastors that I met in Mexico. When I traveled each year to the rugged, pine-covered mountains deep within the Sierra Madre Occidental in Chihuahua, I met Mexican pastors who worked THREE jobs in order to support the work of the Lord! One pastor slept in a chicken coup (until the church sanctuary was finished).
In addition, the Tarahumara pastors that we worked with didn't receive any "money." The people gave to support the Church (the people of God) as the need warranted. There were no modern amenities to squander any sort of wealth upon. There were no vehicles, fancy buildings, nice clothes, or even electricity. Most of the tribe lived in caves. The "offerings" were nothing more than water drawn from the river brought in large clay containers...or selections of their crops given to those who needed it.
Americans have a very interesting look at the compensation for members of the "five fold ministry." We live in a day of "professional" preachers. I have known men who quit pastoring in a location because the church couldn't afford the full salary that he required. I know "praise and worship leaders" who choose only to minister within congregations that provide adequate financial compensation.
As Jimmy said, there are some ministers who are almost "workaholics" in a sense of the amount of time and effort that they place into their "jobs." I have known wonderful pastors that could make a fortune with their work ethic in the "real" working world. However, for every hard-working pastor, I have known others who seem to get "paid" enormous salaries for praying and speaking (and nothing more) while allowing a big board to administrate the business affairs of the local institution.
I tend to shy away from these large "mega-churches" nowadays. There is so little room for the underlying rationale for meeting together -- encouragement. This encouragement isn't supposed to come entirely from a sermon. This encouragement came simply from meeting together with the brethren.
I really like congregations where the pastor is not afraid to work a "secular" job. I like to see pastors who aren't afraid to get out in the world and earn a living in order to provide for their physical families. It is disappointing to see a pastor who almost acts like it is "beneath him" to not get paid (and avoid becoming a burden upon the congregation).
Yes, there are some pastors who do so much that it would be difficult to find the time to work a full-time (or even part-time) job. Unfortunately, it seems that most pastors, evangelists, missionaries and even worship leaders are looking at such things as a career...which is very different than a calling. It is refreshing to meet people who would do what they could to fulfill that "calling" whether they were paid or not.
| 2010/9/16 17:25||Profile|
| Re: |
I think that our personal opinions on this subject are probably shaded by our own attitudes towards money. I think the Scriptures speak reasonably plainly on matters of money. I know that the Son of man had nowhere to lay his head. I know that for much of the time that Paul made tents and knew what it was to have nothing. I know that the saints in Jerusalem had little money and collections were taken up for them.
Often times the problem with the paid professional is that they are reluctant to bite the hand that feeds them. How difficult would it be for any minister to speak to the problems of materialism when he himself lives in such a manner. What about divorce? In most large churches, the stats of divorce are exactly the same if not worse than the world. Yet, do we here a sermon on divorce or talk about the status of people that have been divorced previously? Not likely when 50% of your congregation are themselves divorced and support you and pay your bills.
Rev.Dr Chavady wrote this today........
I hear Gods servants crying out from the four corners of the earth calling on the church to repent and turn back to God. These men are anointed with the same Spirit that was upon John the Baptist and the prophet Elijah.
To name a few such servants: Pastor Brian Long, Chuck Smith, George Ocshe, Leonard Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, Pastor Carter Conlon, Joel Chavady, Brian Brodersen, Richard Owen Roberts, Bob Jennings, Billy Sunday, Al Whittinghill, Greg Gordon, Zac Poonen, Trevor Baker, Paul Washer, David Platt, Kevin Turner.
You can listen to these men on You Tube. When will the church heed this cry? When will the church have a soft heart towards God? Is the church today, taken over by the evil spirit of greed and gain? Instead of listening to Gods servants they are killing the prophets and praising the false prophets. Many churches are responding to this cry for repentance as something unpleasant and negative. I heard a pastor once respond to this cry saying, Some Christians are so sour they seem to have been baptized in vinegar.
Let us open our ears and hear the true anguish of God over the current condition of the church.
| 2010/9/16 17:44|
| Re: Report Reveals Salaries of Megachurch Pastors|
It is not really our business what pastors make, or really what any person brings in for the work they do. It is only the business of the pastor's congregation. Let them pay their pastor what they wish to. It is up to them, whether they are believers or unbelievers to decide, not us to sit and judge. Having said that, I do think a "salary" of $400,000 per year does seem excessive, but again, that is not my business. I know none of my pastors have ever pulled in that amount.
| 2010/9/16 19:07||Profile|
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It should also be noted that $400,000 in California is not the same as $400,000 in South Carolina.
| 2010/9/16 19:12||Profile|
| Re: Report Reveals Salaries of Megachurch Pastors|
"The average salary for a lead pastor..."
Would somebody please show me where this "lead pastor" kind of thing is justified in the first place? From Scripture, I mean?
How long, Lord?
Family of God, prepare for a major MAJOR shaking in the church of Jesus Christ.
"Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up..."
And every structure that He hath not built shall be torn down.
| 2010/9/16 20:14||Profile|
| Re: |
ITs always been a disgusting issue for me now for the last 10-15 years....
They thrive off of the backs of people, God's people, but God will allow it until we learn to listen to HIM.
I have learned that fellowship is of the utmost importance, offerings are good, they are needed, but when the pastor is riding in a rolls royce, and trying to tell me that God said, He will give you power to get wealth!
I realized that there a lot of spiritually illiterate saints out there. Appolus, my friend, again you make a very good point also.
We as a country are a bunch of pagans, we worship the almighty dollar, it is understood that if you dont work, you wont eat, but in terms of ministry, every ministry and how it is run will eventually will be proven whether it is founded upon wood, hay, or stubble, no matter how much money a person has but No foundation, none can be laid except that which is upon Christ.
Jesus was a man of no, absolutely no reputation, there was no comliness in Him that we should desire HIM. His anointing is why I am a free man. His anointing destroys yokes of bondage, blurr, and bewilderment.
Jesus is my Lord
| 2010/9/16 21:00||Profile|
| Re: Salaries of Megachurch Pastors|
ADisciple asks, "Would somebody please show me where this "lead pastor" kind of thing is justified in the first place? From Scripture, I mean?"
NO. Because nobody can show you or anyone else!
The closest you will find in the Scriptures to a "lead pastor", or the better known title "senior pastor" is in 1 Peter 5:4,
"And when the Chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away."
All who read that verse can be unmistakably assured of Whom the apostle is speaking.
May none of His people be guilty of Popedom, and attempt to take one of Christ Jesus' own titles to himself.
Let Romanism have their Vicars of Christ, but let His people be content to be called sons.
1 John 3:1,2
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the SONS of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the SONS of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
Yet another says, "It is not really our business what pastors make..." and, "It is up to them...to decide, not us to sit and judge.
Why certainly it is our business!
Since the Scriptures are our rule(measure)of our faith and practice we who are spiritual judge all things,especially those things pertaining to that Kingdom of which we belong.
1 Cor. 2:15, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged by no man."
"SICK." was one posters response.
I suppose this is as good a one-word response to the subject of this thread as one can muster up. I am also supposing that the poster(Natan)was so disgusted with what he read, that to say more might have led him to be tempted to sin.
From Websters Dictionary(1828 edition)
SICK, a. [Qu.Gr. squeamish, lothing.]
1. Affected with nausea; inclined to vomit; as, sick at the stomach. [This is probably the primary sense of the word.]
2. Disgusted; having a strong dislike to/with/of;
I'd add that a body is not in health, and is suffering from decay and corruption when sick. Such is a body which feeds on unsound(unhealthy)doctrine. Physical,mental,and spiritual health must be guarded against intruders and invaders if it is to be kept strong IN THE LORD.
"I don't think that comments such as "SICK" are in keeping with the spirit of the Scriptures. Such seems to be born of a cynical spirit rather than the Spirit of God."
The Spirit of God in His Word says,
2 Pet. 2:3,12,14,17,22 And through COVETOUSNESS THEY will with FEIGNED WORDS make MERCHANDISE of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not... But THESE, as natural BRUTE BEASTS, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption...Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; BEGUILING unstable souls: they have a heart exercised with COVETOUS PRACTICES; CURSED CHILDREN...These are WELLS without water, CLOUDS that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever... But it hath happened to them according to the true proverb, The DOG is turned to his own vomit again; and, The SOW that was washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
The Spirit of God in His Word has many other seemingly unkind words of this nature which are spoken without apology.
"And yes, my pastor makes 6 figures. And frankly, I am glad he does. He deserves every penny."
Shame on you 'again' KingJimmy, and on your pastor.
"What began as a movement in Jerusalem became a philosophy in Greece, an empire in Rome, a culture in England and an enterprise in America." - anonymous
NOTE: ALL I've stated in the post above ought not to be taken as an indictment of ALL in any leadership roles among the people of God. Nor ought one to assume I am a rebel or anti-authority by their own private interpretation of my words. I am both under authority and also an authority, by the grace of God.
Recall the words of Jesus to Pilate,
"So Pilate said to Him, Do You not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to crucify You, and I have authority to release You? Jesus answered, You would have no authority against Me, not any, if it were not given to you from above. Because of this, the one delivering Me to you has a greater sin." (John 19:10,11)
| 2010/9/17 0:30||Profile|
| Re: Report Reveals Salaries of Megachurch Pastors|
It's really becoming quite the trend. I mean the judging of men who have committed their lives to the Kingdom of God. Jesus said that no greater love does a man have than he lay down his life for a friend. Since terribly sinful people do that everyday in the defense of their home, in defense of the helpless and in defense of our freedoms I think Jesus meant much more than a moment of heroics. He meant the putting aside of many wants and desires over an entire lifetime so that others might hear and know.
First we do not know what these men have been through in their service for God. Sure, some are abusing their position, but some "Christians" are angry and jealous too. Do you we know that some of these men have not suffered greatly for their service and God is giving them a time of blessing and security?
So many have jumped to conclusions and judgment. Someone asked where lead pastor is in the Bible. Research James (not the book). I think it's a spirit of rebellion creeping in. So much talk about "professional ministers" being so rotten. You'll have to go somewhere else to listen to sermons as most I've seen here are professional ministers in that ministering is all they do. Someone also said they have heard of pastors who did nothing but pray and preach and others ran the daily operation of the church. Me too and it was in the book of Acts. They said they weren't called to wait on tables but to prayer and the ministry of the Word.
I'll admit 400,000 is a lot of money, and I have a hard time believing that it could be justified. But the tone is one of disrespect to an office that God has placed in the Church. So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. There is so much that we don't know about these situations that to cast judgment seems detrimental to the Body. The pastor at the last church I attended was told what he would be making. In this case it was far more than what he anticipated. He accepted. Is that really that much different than a pastor being given a salary below the poverty line when a church can afford to pay more? One may be considered greedy, but the other is unloving. "You saw Me naked and you didn't clothe Me. You saw Me hungry and you didn't give Me anything to eat."
A little rambling, but we need to be careful what kind of conclusions we jump to. We must be slower to judge.
| 2010/9/17 0:50||Profile|