SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Legalism or truth

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
DirkW
Member



Joined: 2007/11/16
Posts: 88
Netherlands

 Legalism or truth

Someone said lately that as à preacher we dont have to say in preaching what CHRISTIANS do wrong because we only speak from outward about their behaviour. Hearts are not getting changed by that and people fall into legalism.
Rather we preach Grace, your position in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit. What do you think about this? How are we to preach to brothers...?
Do we already know our Sins by our conscience or can that also be unclean as a christian? Hope you can share some light on this questions.


_________________
Dirk

 2010/9/12 8:59Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re: Legalism or truth

Did the apostle Paul preach against sin in his epistles? And if so, at what point in his letters does he preach against it?

Matthew


_________________
Matthew

 2010/9/12 9:21Profile
DirkW
Member



Joined: 2007/11/16
Posts: 88
Netherlands

 Re:

...


_________________
Dirk

 2010/9/12 9:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Did the apostle Paul preach against sin in his epistles? And if so, at what point in his letters does he preach against it?



Wait, this is a sincere question right?

It's not just a semi-sarcastic manner of speaking to say Paul, or the other New Testament authors never spoke against sin, right?

Yeah, it must be the first one...

 2010/9/12 9:51
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: Legalism or truth

Well i find in almost all recorded "sermons" in scripture in some way the apostles and christ speak against sin in some form, may it be unbelif or any other outward form, but as with all things we can make preaching against sin the "whole gospel" and miss the other parts. The problem lies in what we often do wrong is we focus on the sins we think are serious but miss the sins Jesus often spoke much about, adultery and murder are very serious sins, yet Jesus preached just a few verses on these sins, but you have whole chapters against religious hypocrisy and legalism.

Also i found legalism may mean something to one person and another thing to someone else. One good defenition i think is this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL5nH0u1aqc


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2010/9/12 13:10Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

A wonderful aspect of living under the New Covenant is that all believers have a role in the Body of Christ; all are knit together in love, and all follow the promptings and leadings of the Holy Spirit, rather than a written letter.

There is great liberty in walking in the Spirit, when we are attuned to the leadings of the Spirit. Never will having the mind of Christ lead us into or make provision for sin. In all things we are brought back to the Word of God as our standard, though not merely to follow the letter (which invariably leads to legalism), but in the empowerment and illumination of the Holy Spirit, Who "opens" the letter to reveal the life and reality behind each word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

There is no cookie-cutter method or set of rules a Christian preacher is to follow in ministry apart from obeying the light revealed to his spirit in Christ at the present place in his walk. In our immaturity, we as children endeavor to imitate and even replicate the ministries of other men of God, believing if we duplicate the mannerisms and say the right words or preach from the same Bible version God will pour out His anointing in the same way. But it doesn't work.

We instead are to follow the individual leading of the Spirit and humble ourselves to the possibility that God may have a different course of action for our lives. John and Peter and Paul's ministries were all flavored very differently. Some people today think a preacher must preach as simplistic as possible and not use words over a third-grade level so that all can understand and be edified. If God has wired you like the Apostle John, then this is what you do; but never forget there is also Paul who preached differently and whose epistles come off as far more cerebral and verbose than the former.

Some men are called to roar against sin in the church; others are called to uplift and strengthen broken believers. Some men are called to thunder repentance and the impending doom of judgment; other men have a written ministry of intense profundity and spiritual nourishment. No two men of God are ever the same, though both may be called to the identical office in the Body of Christ.

Since the Holy Spirit is the divine catalyst behind all anointed ministry, the means all accomplish the same result: the glorification of God in Christ Jesus. Let our passion be found in seeking God's will and way for our unique part in the Body of Christ, and allow the Spirit to conform us to and impart the nature of Christ whereby the reality of such a ministry can be put into practice.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2010/9/12 13:39Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3783
Louisiana

 Re:

Thank you Paul for this excellent word.

We need Holy Spirit directed preaching and teaching in which men have spent time with God seeking His face.

Only God knows what a group of believers need to hear. We must have the Word in our hearts and allow the Holy Spirit to bring that Word to our remembrance. He has the perfect Word in every situation with a diverse group of people that are on many different levels of spiritual growth. The Spirit always ministers life, and many times this life will search our hearts and convict us of our sins.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2010/9/12 14:11Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re: Reply

Grant,

Yes, my question was sincere. Absolutely.

The goal was to have Dirk search the Scriptures himself and sometimes a couple simple questions can help someone start on the right track. I was trying to avoid a "simple" answer, that of, simply answering the question out right. Many times we learn things when we study them ourselves. Jesus often answered questions with questions so that the questioner would have to come to the conclusion himself.

I interpreted Dirk's reply of "..." to mean he was off and reading so hopefully he didn't view my questions as sarcastic. :)

Should the converstaion continue there are many helpful verses from which we can learn.

Grace and Peace,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew

 2010/9/12 15:37Profile
augustine75
Member



Joined: 2010/7/8
Posts: 10
New York, USA

 Re: Legalism or truth

Dear, DirkW.
My short view about your concern is as follows.

1. Regarding, "we only speak from outward about their behavior."
Christians are not to speak from mere outward about our brothers' behavior. Christians are enabled by the grace of God to sincerely correct, rebuke and encourage. It is through the Word of God, all Scripture, not only part of it, that is useful of teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that "man of God" may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 16-17)

2. Regarding, "Hearts are not getting changed."
My belief is when the Spirit speaks through the Sprit-filled man, the speaking softens and ultimately changes hearts, even the hearts of God's elect, Christians.

3. Regarding, "and people fall into legalism"
As far as I know, keeping God's words never makes Christian legalistic. Christians love God's Words and are enabled by the Spirit to keep them. Legalism is idea or practice that salvation can be achieved by keeping the law. Legalism is wrong, but Christians keep God's words. Preaching on repenting sins and turning hearts to God's Words never make Christians fall into legalism. It rather saves people from legalism by teaching them to depend on God's power and mercy day by day.

4. Regarding, "grace"
As for grace, I want to quote Titus 2:11-12. "For "the grace" of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age...." If we received grace, wouldn't the grace say the same thing? If the grace works in us wouldn't the grace will tell us to speak the same thing, saying "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions and "yes" to self-controlled upright and godly lives in this present age?

5. Regarding, "position in Christ"
Our mere intellectual or doctrinal position is never sole requirement of salvation including sanctification of Christians. It is our actual talking, acting, and living resulted from "new heart", empowered by the Holy Spirit that dwells in us that count. In other words, our personal relationship should manifest what we proclaim or where we position ourselves.

6. Regarding, "Do we already know our Sins by our conscience?"
I believe when we pray the Holy Spirit shows us our sins and help us repent. But also, church is also charged and privileged that we confess our sins to each other. Then can I assume that the Scripture is suggesting that there are sins that could be, or only could be rebuked, corrected among the fellowship of brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ? Then, don't we need brothers and sisters, which is the church, to do so in our fellowship with God?

Dear, DirkW. This is my first post on Sermonindex. I humbly share my view as one of them who deal with same issue. I don’t know who the preacher is and how the person is involved with you. But I wish I don’t personally offend the person or you by my post. Please regard my post as immature view which requires brother’s rebuking and correcting. Please correct me if I am wrong in any of my views. I thank you for reading.


_________________
Augustine Byon

 2010/9/12 16:32Profile









 Re:

Alright Mathew, I got ya.

Sometimes in text it's just really hard to tell what exactly a person means.

I agree with you though.

 2010/9/13 5:13





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy