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live4jc
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Joined: 2008/10/2
Posts: 203


 Re: God did not create the universe, says Hawking


I had gotten the feeling in times past that Hawking was more open to belief in God's existence. Possibly he still is open, however with these recent statements, he's saying that the universe need not have come about by a creator; God.

I can see what you are saying areadymind, about the hypocrisy that is in evidence by many modern day scientists. The problem is that they assume that 'science is the arbiter of all truth'. However, by making this assumption at the outset, they draw a circle that defines what is true and what is false. This is a small circle, that of necessity precludes God and the 'supernatural', because science has come to see everything as requiring a 'natural' explanation. This approach is, of course, such a huge divergence from the approach taken by many great scientists of the past. They saw 'truth' as not being equivalent to 'science', and as not precluding belief in God.

You've likely heard it said many times before that Science has become a religion of itself, and that 'Evolution' requires more faith to believe then 'Creationism'. I think there's a lot to this, and that it can be easily demonstrated that people who hold to a materialistic view of the world are in fact, exercising faith. For example, many atheists proudly say that they are 'skeptics', and that they won't believe anything without solid proof. However, do they adopt this approach consistently, in all things ? Definitely not. For example, someone who was a true skeptic, would look at all of the complex systems in the body (e.g. The blood clotting system) and might say, "Ok, I'll cast my lot with random processes and evolution being the explanation that accounts for the human body and all of this apparently complex stuff I see around me, but I have to admit that I struggle with this explanation."

I always like to encourage people to consider a comparison between the complexity seen in the structure of a human heart and in the structure of a car engine. Which one is more complex might be a matter of debate, since both are pretty complicated. Now with a car engine, we know that humans have never and likely will never be able to design an engine that could run constantly for a number of years (assuming it had enough fuel). But this is exactly what a human heart does, it beats 70 times a minute and runs for 70 years or longer !! However, evolutionists believe that a human heart came into existence soley as a result of random evolutionary processes. That's amazing to imagine how random processes could possibly have achieved the production of a complex 'machine' that can run for many decades, while the best and brightest car engineers could not accomplish this feat.

Having said all this…I know you guys will agree that atheists are "fools" as the Bible puts it, not because they lack intelligence, but rather because they choose to put their confidence in the flesh, rather than in God and his son, Jesus Christ.

Despite the foolishness of atheists, we are called not to despise them for their foolishness or to belittle them. But rather, as Jude puts it, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." And as Paul points out, 'And such were some of you". For sure, all of us were that, and are what we are now…only because of Christ's blood.

In Jesus,
John

 2010/9/3 17:29Profile
Crux
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Joined: 2010/8/2
Posts: 31


 Re: God did not create the universe, says Hawking

What I find most astounding is that people still believe in such a thing as curved spacetime. It's like they just can't recognize what sort of rubbish is being fed to them.
Usually they only show the sun making the dent in space and one planet swirling around the dent.

I challenge anyone to look up an animation of curved space and then throw some more planets in there and see if the result reflects how the planets actually orbit the sun as observed in reality.

When asked for his opinion on the theories of contemporary Albert Einstein, Tesla gave a scathing analysis of relativity theory, calling it a "magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king" (Time, 1935)

Personally I find Plasma cosmology the most compelling argument for gravity although even that is open to critisism.
Plasma cosmology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm3N71iJJzA&feature=related
I'm not sure that either theory can explain eliptical orbits for instance unless under the plasma model there is more than one force which makes up gravity like a combination of electrostatics, diamagnetism, perhaps even some ferromagnetism in the case of earth.
Pure speculation on my part but the curved space model is clearly so flawed when compared to observed orbits that I would agree with Tesla. Spacetime curvature is not even a theory its pure fantasy.

The concepts of curved space, the Singularity, the Multiverse and the Big Bang are highly questionable at best.

 2010/9/5 13:48Profile
Crux
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Joined: 2010/8/2
Posts: 31


 Re:

Here is one more thing I would like to add besides what I have posted above.
New Scientist Magazine and an article entitled: Why Darwin was wrong about the tree of life.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126921.600-why-darwin-was-wrong-about-the-tree-of-life.html
If you are an account holder or a subscriber to this magazine then might I encourage you to read the full article.

What about black holes and the accretion disk and jets.
Even a neutron star produces jets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ioriGSOaLg
How about a secretion disc and not a accretion disc.
Something to ponder on in God's wonderous universe.

 2010/9/6 16:55Profile
ManofGod0000
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Joined: 2010/6/8
Posts: 191


 Re:

All that I can say, Is that I was young, and now I am a little older, and I have never seed the righteous forsaken or His seen begging bread or anything else.

His seed seeks Him out until they find Him, and then they continue seeking until they are utterly satisfied.

What is correlation? this is what was on my heart.

I have been through many winds that life has brought my way, and I still refuse to doubt or to try an conjure up why God doesn't exist, or if I should contemplate whether or not he created the universe.

He is God, and God ways and thoughts are not like yours Mr Hawking, they are intellectually higher, brighter, and more exuberant that yours, not to prove you wrong, but so that you will know that you cannot be right, you are a mere created mortal with learned wisdom.

Let us pray for such a skeptic

 2010/9/6 22:13Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3588
Louisiana

 Re:

Isn't it amazing that a child that knows Bible 101 knows more about the creation of the universe than the scientist with the highest IQ that doesn't believe in God.

There is an oriental scientist that I have seen on the Discovery channel that believes that man came from the stars. He came to this conclusion because he said that stars have the same minerals that our bodies do. Isn't it amazing that these minerals all came together to form a man, a living breathing man at that.,

Mike


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Mike

 2010/9/6 22:27Profile
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Mike said, "There is an oriental scientist that I have seen on the Discovery channel that believes that man came from the stars. He came to this conclusion because he said that stars have the same minerals that our bodies do. Isn't it amazing that these minerals all came together to form a man, a living breathing man at that."

I have heard of this guy, I think he even claims to be a Christian of some type if I am not mistaken. I listened to him for a little while and then shut him off because he was a little nutty saying we needed to Thank the stars and universe for sacrificing themselves to create us, since they had to blow up and disperse their particles in order to create us. Funny how man comes of with the most unlikely answers to life's already answered questions.


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/9/7 1:26Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497
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 Re:

Quote:
we needed to Thank the stars and universe for sacrificing themselves to create us, since they had to blow up and disperse their particles in order to create us.



Well, this is a new one - for me. Or, I must be grossly ignorant.

Stars can think? I have never seen any fire, or gases, or stones, or rocks put themselves out for any human being...fire will consume whatever is in its path including you if you are not careful.

That fellow does have an active imagination - too bad he does not use it constructively.


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Sandra Miller

 2010/9/7 2:14Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3588
Louisiana

 Re: God did not create the universe, says Hawking

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows his handiwork". (Psalms 19:1).

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse". (Romans 1:20).

"Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” (1Corinthians 1:20-31).


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Mike

 2010/9/7 8:38Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: God did not create the universe, says Hawking



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Quote:
we needed to Thank the stars and universe for sacrificing themselves to create us, since they had to blow up and disperse their particles in order to create us.



ginnyrose: Well, this is a new one - for me. Or, I must be grossly ignorant.
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I think he got it from the old saying, “I thank my lucky stars....” (hehehe)


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"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.
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All he’s doing is just proving he’s way late coming to the party! A day late and a dollar short!! (grin)

God bless,
Lisa

PS: Has anybody asked God to save this man? I’m going to admit that I never have and I’m going to start! My question is, what if we get to heaven and God shows us the people that weren’t converted because we didn’t ask God to save them? I’m just thinking outloud....


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Lisa

 2010/9/7 14:02Profile





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