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 Re:

"First, you may not feel qualified to pass judgment on the man, but this is [i]your[/i] problem. If you yourself don't see, please don't pass judgment on people who have seen"

Amen brother..........brother Frank

 2010/9/1 20:36









 Re:

Quote:

The story of the good samaritan didn't end with the samaritan teaching the victim false teaching and him lapping it up like water because of a kind act.



I am not defending Brother KingJimmy’s example. However, I need to question this “false teaching” allegation. Did Glenn Beck stand up and begin teaching false doctrine? I didn’t see that. I saw him telling people – regardless of their doctrinal, denominational or religious background – to consider spiritual matters. I hear good Christian pastors, missionaries and evangelists say something similar to this all of the time. While I definitely oppose the damnable tenants of Mormonism, I still don’t find anything wrong with this statement in and of itself.

Do you find anything wrong with Anton Levay (high preist of the satanic church) getting up and telling people to consider spiritual matters? What about if Alleister Crowley (author of the satanic bible & founder of the church of satan)got up, asked all of the different church leaders from all of the religions to put aside their differences and seek god together for a spiritual awakening in America before we lose our freedoms? Would that be a problem for you? I like much of Glenn Beck's research & showing truth of political deception. I pray that he would genuinely see the error of his way, see his sin as exceedingly sinful, repent, & be born again. This is not a personal attack against Glenn Beck. He doesn't realize he is deceived. If he did, then he wouldn't be deceived. That's why it's called "deception". It's tricky like that. The Lord may be allowing this person in particular to lead "the right" to find out who is more "patriotic" than "born from above". I'm telling you that it smells bad and it's gonna rot. Don't swallow it down without taking it to God in prayer. I believe he himself put this rally together. I believe he himself called all these "people of different cloths" together to unite arm in arm and seek god together. OK, if he isn't a "false teacher", then he is definitely promoting a false spirituality. What then would that make him? A "false promoter". I hope he gets saved and has a radical testimony and change (say good-bye to Fox & the spotlight), I really do. His apparent "heart for the truth" is what christians like, but if there is really "no truth in him", then he can't touch on spiritual issues and not be false, can he? I hear Spike Lee say, "Do the right thing" just like true shephards say (in similiar words anyways), but aren't they really saying different things? Glenn Beck's salvation for America says, "stand up together, regardless of your religion, remember the founders, read the constitution, resist the tyrannical government, you can save America"
Christ's salvation for America says, "stand up Body of Christ, preach the Gospel, love thy neighbor, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, & strength, remember the foundations built on the apostles with Christ as the chief cornerstone, read and obey the Word of God, submit to the governing authority which God Himself instituted, only Christ in His mercy can save America & it's all ultimately going to be burnt up & a new heaven and new earth created for those in the Kingdom"
My heart's intent isn't to "be right" or "prove a point", just to say prophetically something is happening which is beginning to take form here. Keep your eye on it, your heart open to the Lord, your foundation on the Word of God alone, & don't accept "Unity through compromise".

 2010/9/1 21:14









 Re: Glenn Beck's Ecumenical Push on the Church

HEADLINE:

"One Year Later, A Presidency, Triumphant."

One year after President Beck stood in the chill January air of Washington DC, delievering what many have said, was his finest hour of national rhetoric. A speech that was the balm that soothed a nation in transition. A nation reeling from the effects of the Greater Depression, the newly sworn in President promised to heal the wounds of "an America gone tragically adrift into a world of fear and cyncism".

One year later, the President was expansive and confident, as he spoke with this reporter, passionate, using his mobile hands for emphasis, President Beck was satisfied that the National Christian Party, the insurgent party formed from the ashes of the Republican Party, using the rank and file operatives of the Tea Party, was "stronger than ever, getting stronger every day, and in the final analysis, it wasn't just an election, God blessed the national Christian Party, just as He will bless the National Christian Church".

"One can't view the National Christian Party as seperate from the National Christian Church, they are one and the same. It all stemed from the idea, that America and her people needed to embrace God at a time of confusion and suffering. Which is why I attributed it all to the Wisdom of God, by putting needless sectarian and denominational differences aside".

The President was referring to, what is now known as the "Great Reconcilliation", when prominent Evangelical leaders gathered with Mormon officials, and after a series of meetings, agreed that the Mormonism was not incapatible with the Protestant denominations and doctrine, that they all worshiped the same God, and should, in this time of crisis, join together to form a national church.

Inevitably, there was friction as a portion of Evangelicals pushed back, and maintained that undue pressure and influence came from the Mormons that sat accross the table from them, but with the President using his early currency, eventually the agreement known as the "Great Reconcilliation" was signed, by over 100 prominent Evangelical and Mormon leaders, leading to the formation of the National Christian Church.

"but it couldnt have been done without the party", the President said, the familiar infectious grin playing across his face, "The National christian Party is the whole ballgame, binding together a nation of morals under God, under this proud flag of a nation that was born of God and continued and blessed by God".

"There will always be complainers, there will always be that secular liberalism that denies God, but when the people spoke, many of these liberals realized they were on the wrong side of history, and God woke them up. And if they don't realize this fact now, sooner or later, whether by God's will, or the pressure of the people, Americans will realize that the only true party is the National Christian Party and the only true church is the National Christian Church". If an American truly walks with God, he or she will realize God blessed America with the Party, and will walk in submission to the Party and the national Church. To do otherwise, would be in rebellion to God, and rebellion to God is rebellion to the nation, its as simple as that."

The President spoke enthusiastically about his upcoming meeting in Washington with the Pope and vatican officials, as rumours abound that the Vatican seeks to be included in the "Great Reconcilliation", "For too many centuries Catholics and Protestants have been at odds with petty doctrinal differences, I'm confident that dark period will soon end", and we can welcome our Catholic brothers and sisters into the National Christian Church".

President Beck leaves for Camp David with Vice President Bachmann and her family for their monthly weekend prayer meetings.

 2010/9/1 23:43
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi NotMe...

Quote:

I haven't been around SI for a while, but from this post I see you haven't changed much as far as your thinking and attitude go.



Is this really a fair or wise thing to say?

First of all, I don't think that you understand what I am saying. I am NOT saying to listen to anything that Glenn Beck, President Bush or President Obama (or anyone else) says about Biblical truth. I am just agreeing with KingJimmy and several others here who agree that God can use someone who is NOT a Christian to cause other unbelievers to contemplate spiritual matters. That's all. Nothing else.

Secondly: Brother, you do NOT know me. Yet, by your statement, it seems like you "see" so much by so little.

Have you walked in a mile in my shoes? Have you spent a single minute speaking with me directly? Have you spent any time with me? Yet you read a total of a few of my posts over the past couple of days...something that you didn't agree with...and suddenly can "see" that I "haven't changed much as far my thinking and attitude go?"

I think that you have highlighted the issue I have regarding judging something unrighteously. Some people "see" something that they are sure to be "true" -- and then pass a carnal form of "spiritualized" judgment. Can you "see" how UNRIGHTEOUS this form of judgment can be?

Quote:

The Lord Jesus taught that "by their fruit you shall know them." If the fruit is bad, consistently, then the tree is bad, surely. By playing the "Do not judge" card, you are actually judging the Lord Himself, because He commanded "judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24).



Yet, what FRUIT are we speaking about here? I am not speaking about any sort of "fruit" in Glenn Beck. I am not analyzing his life by the little amount of supposed information or knowledge that you or I have regarding his life. I am not analyzing Mormonism -- because I already know that to be a cult.

It is ridiculous to claim that I am playing a "do not judge" card. I didn't say that we cannot judge Beck's WORDS. In fact, I am trying to do that very thing! In fact, one brother made a VERY specific claim about something that Beck supposedly said (that they were urging people from different religions to "seek the one common god."). I have been attempting to verify those words to make sure that, in fact, Beck actually said those things.

I think that, if someone is going to present a quote like this, it is important to JUDGE the validity of the quote itself before proceeding forward to JUDGE the quote itself. If I were to judge the quote, I would agree that it is obviously Biblically wrong.

Please remember:
I did NOT say that Beck is right or wrong in ANYTHING that he said.
I have repeatedly said that religious ecumenicism is wrong.
I have consistently pointed out that Mormonism is a cult.
I have said that it is okay to judge facts, words or actions that are undeniable and indisputable.
I have NEVER said that the "answer" for people (or even America) lay in politics.

ALL that some of us are saying is that it is possible for God to use ANYTHING -- including an unbelieving man like Glenn Beck -- to incite people one way or the other.

Quote:

Here the question is not whether there isn't some truth in Mormonism or in man, but about believers in Christ being [u]yoked together with idolaters[/u] in this movement. What does light have to do with darkness? It is one thing to accept the advice of an unbelievers if it is according to the Truth, but a whole another thing to join arms with him in an ungodly agenda.



You say that Beck's agenda was an "ungodly agenda." What do you mean? How much of an expert are you in this? Have you spoken to anyone involved in it? Did you read this agenda from a firsthand source? Upon what are you basing your judgment upon? If you (or anyone else) are going to make such a SPECIFIC proclamation, at least provide the SPECIFIC evidence upon which you are basing it (and certainly not any hearsay or claims that it is "obvious").

Now, brother, I totally agree that believers should not be fellowshipped with darkness. However, I think that it is incorrect to insist that this means a total physical separation from everyone in this world. The Amish tried that -- and it certainly didn't help their evangelistic efforts (to say the least). No, Jesus did not come to take us OUT of this world...but to protect us from the evil one while we live in it.

Most of us have to work jobs. Most of us don't get paid by the Church. In other words, we still have secular employers or employees. Even if a believer owns his own business, he must still interact with the people of this world. Do we "cut off" people who are Catholic...Mormon...or any other religion? One of my supervisors is an atheist. He even publicly campaigns for the Democratic Party specifically on behalf of abortion rights. Yet this supervisor's supervisor is a lay minister with an Independent Baptist congregation. Am I to "pick and choose" who I listen to? Am I to completely ignore my supervisor because he is a godless abortion supporter? Or do I simply "test" the things that he says? I suppose that I can't ignore him if I still want to keep the job that the Lord provided.

The point is that we are prompted by the Lord to test the things that are said. In the case of Glenn Beck, I didn't find anything wrong with words that tell people to think about spiritual things. He didn't tell them WHAT to think about specifically. He didn't even offer them any doctrinal things. He just said that we need to be morally righteous with our neighbors...and to think about spiritual matters. By those words -- and WITHOUT JUDGING WHAT I THINK HIS MOTIVES WERE -- I can't say that I disagree. I may disagree with many of the things that Beck says in regard to other matters. I certainly disagree with Mormonism. In fact, I have hardly ever listened to the man. However, I don't find anything wrong with those specific words about considering spiritual matters.

Quote:

There is something quite odd and disturbing in the fact that in word you claim that "Religious ecumenicism is wrong"; yet, you are unable to notice the apparent move toward ecumencism in these men's actions.



Brother, there is no need to be "disturbed." I was merely pointing out that there is a difference between ecumenicism and telling people to consider spiritual matters. They are NOT the same. It doesn't matter if you "see" it or not. In fact, it seems to me that this claim itself is a matter of "seeing" something based upon something other than the facts.

Do you think that this was an attempt at religious ecumenicism? Why? What specific things did Beck say that make you think this?

Now, I am NOT saying that this wasn't a motivation of Beck. I simply don't know with perfect certainty that others pretend. I didn't see it in anything that I specifically heard. However, I will not base it upon some insinuation from people who don't even have evidence upon which they base their own opinion. If you will make the claim that this was, in fact, some sort of ecumenical attempt at a one world religion (as someone else suggested), then show me what you are basing it upon -- and please let it be something other than some unprovable "spiritual discernment" that so many people claim to have but have difficulty demonstrating in fact.

Quote:

What disturbed me though was that would speak like this on FOX, which is owned by a member of the church of one-world religion advocate, Rick Warren. So I asked myself, "Why would they allow him to speak this way, if this weren't consistent with their agenda?"



Glenn Beck has spoken the same way since before the days that he was on CNN (let alone FoxNews). BTW, Fox News is a subsidiary company of the Fox Entertainment Company. Roger Ailes is the longtime CEO of Fox News. Fox Entertainment Co. is itself is one of many subsidiaries of News Corporation. News Corp. is a publicly traded media and publishing company that is not owned by a single person. The founder, chairman and CEO is Rupert Murdoch (not Rick Warren). The Murdoch family is currently one of the major shareholders (they own 29% of the company), but 71% of the company is owned by people outside of his own family.

BTW, I am not a fan of Rick Warren. In fact, I have never read a single a book that the guy has written...and I have never listened to him preach a sermon. I have previously heard claims that he believed in a "one-world religion." The "evidence" that others have presented to me about this claim in the past ended up either being untrue or even fabricated. So, what specific evidence do you base the claim? I would like to see the firsthand account itself (and not a link to a secondhand conspiracy website).

Again, I don't listen to or identify myself at all with Rick Warren. However, if such a specific, extreme claim is going to be made (about his goal for a "one world religion"), then at least validate the claim with a credible citation from a firsthand account. Last year, I actually emailed their ministry and asked him about it. The email that I received stated that this was a "disturbing urban legend" and was simply "untrue." The email thanked me for my question, but assured me that Mr. Warren has "never supported" any effort to create a one world religion. I am interested in finding the evidence that you base this claim on in case I want to contact them again.

Quote:

It is clear from what jeffmar has posted, I had sensed correctly that there was something going on. And as I see it, the goal is the leading astray of the elect (if it were possible), by alluring them with some just and reasonable anti-socialsts arguments into the snare of the ecumenical agenda. Would Christians join arms with people like Glenn Beck (remember, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light) in order to get a temporary "cut on lawlessness" in America, or would they consent for nothing less than the coming Kingdom of Heaven?



I don't know if this is the goal of Glenn Beck to "lead astray the elect." I have NEVER believed that the ultimate answer for the people of this world is government involvement, political alignment or anything resembling that. The answer for the world is still found in Jesus Christ.

At the same time, I still believe that it is possible to vote...or to share an opinion about such things. In fact, it often seems that those who are most audaciously vocal in their claims of being "non-political" are often the ones who raise the most ruckus about it (or engage in strong conflict with anyone who holds a slightly different opinion on the matter).

As for the August 28th meeting in Washington DC: I watched much of this on the internet -- mostly from "news" websites (like the AP). I watched various people saying different things. The predominant theme seemed to be the idea that people would care about one another AND the idea that people should think about spiritual matters. As for the topic, I don't find anything wrong with asking people to care about their neighbor or to consider spiritual matters.

It would be ideal if Christians were responsible for looking at the people of this world (like "sheep having no shepherd") and had enough urgency to proclaim this! Unfortunately, it seems like the Church largely remains silent. It seems that we too often prefer to visit Christian forums and argue over doctrinal issues, criticize people that we disagree with or proclaim the latest "discernment" that the Lord has given us regarding the hearts of others. Sadly, we should have been the ones saying this, and not an unbeliever and Mormon with strong conservative/libertarian political views.

Just to be clear: I totally agree with the basis for what most of us are saying. Like I said, religious ecumenicism is wrong. A one world religions is wrong. Mormonism is a hellish cult. Glenn Beck doesn't know Jesus Christ. Christians shouldn't think that government or politics is the answer. I AGREE! :-)

I am not even defending Glenn Beck (although I am trying to validate SPECIFIC claims that might be made against him)! In the end, I am simply saying that I agree that people in this world (believers and unbelievers alike) need to think about spiritual matters. Whether those words come from a believer or unbeliever, it is still a good idea.

I hope that this is clear enough. You can even say "Amen" now, Frank. ;-)


_________________
Christopher

 2010/9/2 0:37Profile









 Re:

Just three days after President Beck and Vice President Bachmen met at Camp David, the unthinkable happened. Who could have ever imagined that we would witness something beyond the horror of 9/11? And yet it has just been a week since the multiple bombings. The reports coming in suggest that the final death toll in New York may reach 50,000. Looting has been widespread and fires are burning all over the city since, what experts now tell us, the explosion a a " suitcase,' nuclear bomb. It seems likely that this bomb, as with the other four, originated in Russia and made its way onto the black market.


London is reeling from their own death toll, now put at over 100,000. St Paul's Cathedral was completely destroyed in the blast and they are seeing the same looting problems as we are seeing. Paris, Moscow and Beijing have fared no better. While each of these countries are scrambling to en-act and enforce Marshall law, there is a planned meeting of world leaders in just three days in Washington.
President Beck has been reported as saying that this is a paradigm shift. When asked by White house reporters what was going to happen now, White house spokesman Sean Hannity said that the final details were not in place yet, but that there were plans in the works to be able to track and identify every legitimate citizen from all the countries of the world. He said that while the Muslim fundamentalists had brought the world to their knees , it had also brought about a unique unity amongst every government in the world. He said that the President believed, and that this belief was shared by every single leader in the West and the East, that the time had come to strike a death blow to radical religious haters.


He was quick to point out that, while they knew that it was Muslim terrorists that had carried out these evil acts , that the time had come to put a stop to all those who sow division and hatred by denying and claiming that their " God,' was the true God. " These haters," he said," are part of the problem that led to the horror we witnessed last week." Legislation is already working its way through congress, and seems to have unanimous support, to outlaw any kind of " exclusivity," speech. This would now be considered a hate crime carrying the most severe penalty.


On the security issue, when asked about the chips that were now going to be required to be placed in the arm of every citizen, Hannity said that no reasonable person could argue against the logic of such a move in light of the horror that we had all just witnessed. On the larger question of security, in regard to the Nuclear issue, he said that there was a " remarkable,' willingness by all the major players in the world, to give up their nuclear weapons. The five countries that were devastated last week were now remarkably willing to enter into serious and speedy talks in order to rid the world, finally, of these horrendous weapons.


The one cloud over this issue seems to be Israel. She has always claimed not to have any nuclear weapons, but it is an open secret that she does. When pushed on this point, Hannity said that there would definitely be a coalition of the willing, such as never been seen before, in fact he was even went as far to say that every nation on the planet has indicated that they support the five main nuclear countries on this issue. He said that he was very confident, that when Israel saw that every nation in the world was standing in lockstep, then they would join with the rest of us. "After all." he said " who would want every nation of the world coming against them."
When the Israeli ambassador was asked for a comment , he said that Israel maintained its long held position that they did not have weapons of mass destruction.

 2010/9/2 0:52
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Whoa Nelly!

There is too much escalation in the rhetoric of this thread. (edited)

I'm not a moderator, but I recognize when a friendly wrestling match is about to get out of hand. This subject isn't going anywhere...perhaps it's time to take a break fellas!

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2010/9/2 1:31Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Ditto Compton.

"I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace." -Ephesians 4:1-3


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/9/2 2:44Profile









 Re:

Chris,

I do not care about you being convinced by the truth. Because if you loved the truth, you won't need to be flooding this thread with meaningless, political correctness. You would be able to separate the clean from the unclean, the true from the false, and not sit back and say, "There is not enough evidence for me the judge." Yes, Chris, there is plenty of evidence on Rick Warren and on Glenn Beck to prove the points that are made in the article posted, but there is very little if any sincerity in YOU to seek and accept them. How is it that you always bend the facts in your favor, so you can proclaim eventually that nothing is certain. Even though you "stick" to the tenets of Christianity in word, you're an enemy of the truth, because all the time you defend falsehood, and cannot be convinced that you are doing it.

See, I don't care about what you think, Chris. I care about the truth of the matter. If you don't understand and do not want to enter, at least don't get in the way of others with your writing.

Quote:
Yet, what FRUIT are we speaking about here? I am not speaking about any sort of "fruit" in Glenn Beck. I am not analyzing his life by the little amount of supposed information or knowledge that you or I have regarding his life. I am not analyzing Mormonism -- because I already know that to be a cult.



Are the public statements this man has made no fruit? "Little amount of supposed information"--can a Christian write like this, one who is supposed to be led into all truth and nothing less? Chris, you clearly REFUSE to see the obvious here. And again you hide behind the "I know Mormonism to be a cult" statement. However, it is nonessential whether you believe this or not really, because if you endorse or don't expose and stand up against the leading astray of the people of God by satanists/mormons, then you are in the same boat with Mormons, supporting their agenda. Regardless of what you supposedly believe about them. The "works" of your faith are not present, and I am not impressed by words, even by "a multitude of words".

Quote:
ALL that some of us are saying is that it is possible for God to use ANYTHING -- including an unbelieving man like Glenn Beck -- to incite people one way or the other.



It is possible for God to use anything for good. However, I see Him using false prophets and leaders for judgment upon the backslidden, for condemnation. IN fact, false prophets and leaders are exposed and condemned by the men of God in all Scripture. I have never seen Elijah or Isaiah say, "Oh, surely the Lord can use this heretic to draw people to Himself." This is twisting of the truth here. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin and only God can draw people to Himself. He doesn't need people like Glenn Beck to do so. If somebody thirsts after righteousness and truth, he shall find and be filled. If he doesn't seek truth, he will not find it--with or without promptings to consider "spiritual matters".


Quote:
Do you think that this was an attempt at religious ecumenicism? Why? What specific things did Beck say that make you think this?



You reread the article again, Chris. Do your research. It is certainly not the encouragement for people to consider "spirituality" that we are talking about (even though this too is part of the picture).

 2010/9/2 3:47
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, tonight glen said ...do not put your faith in gold but put it in God...how horrible.jimp btw shut up and pray for him and the president for they need the prayers and you need the practice.

 2010/9/2 5:38Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Brother NotMe,

I am saddened that you have either misunderstood me or incorrectly determined what I was saying (or the intent behind it). I feel that you have both misjudged and misrepresented me here by your words.

I do think that it takes more evidence to substantiate specific allegations that are so quickly made with a "multitude of words." I think that we should make every effort to prove our own words if we make such hefty, specific allegations.

This misrepresentation hurts. I am laying in my bed, typing this up on my cell phone in prayerful tears...wondering how something so simple could be turned into something so divisive that it almost seems that you have publicly questioned the sincerity of my faith in Christ.

I am not hiding behind ambiguous words. I am not even defending Glen Beck (or even King Jimmy's original thesis from the other thread). I am constantly endeavoring to sort through the chaff and determine the truth behind specific claims, allegations and/or attacks that have been made.

I don't know how to make my personal thoughts more clear than I already have tried to make it. I guess that I could just leave this topic with what I have already written and hope that no one will incorrectly read between the lines, offer cynicism those with whom they disagree or
make an unsubstantiated claim based on rumor, insinuation, half-truths or repetitious speculations.

I do apologize if my intentions were not clear enough. However, I did try to explain what I think about this. I disagree with the assessment of my view in this matter...or the attempt to incorrectly read between the lines of my, soul or mind.

I do love all of those here -- including those that I might disagree with (and those who may have incorrectly translated my thoughts or intrntions into something that they simply are not.

I think that a couple of the others here have said it best regarding the closure of this thread. Still, I hope that I can make it clear that I am not endorsing Beck, ecumenicism or a political solution whatsoever. I was simply stating my belief that God can use anything or anyone to foster a consideration of spiritual matters.

I also hope that those who make specific allegations can be willing to validate them so that others can properly test or prove them. An open insinuation just isn't enough -- and the burden of proof lay with the person who makes the allegation (rather than those who question it). We do need to be good stewards -- not just of our money, but our time, energy and effort as well.

May the Lord gently lead and guide each of us.


_________________
Christopher

 2010/9/2 5:42Profile





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