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InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Truth of doctrine and truth of heart are both necessary; sincerity to propound a right end, and knowledge of the word of truth to direct us in the right way to that end.
-William Gurnall




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Ron Halverson

 2010/8/30 22:45Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Stop! Calm down and breathe for a moment. Ok, good.

Brothers, I only meant this thread to be a friendly consideration and reflection, not an all out war. I never imagined my simple thought would explode as it has. Indeed, it seems like a run away freight train was let loose on here, something of which I had no intent to create nor imagined it would give birth to. Perhaps I did not articulate things as well as I should have, and brought some confusion out as a result. Seeing this thread take off like it has, I have desired all day to get back here and explain some things, for I fear some of you have imagined that I've said some things that I have not said, nor would ever say. Which I've found shocking, considering the history I have had here on Sermon Index. But never mind any of that, let me attempt to now articulate what I probably should've said more fully to begin with.

When it comes to Glenn Beck, SermonIndex.net probably has nobody that has listened to Beck as long and as closely as I have. There may be one or two of you that have, but such is unlikely. I've been listening to him long before he landed on Fox News, and long before he was popular. I've listened to him on the radio for several years, and even pay $7 a month to do so, since his radio broadcast comes on while I am at work, and no local station broadcasts him. On average, I listen to his radio broadcast 3-4 times a week, and usually listen to a full show (minus commercials), and have done so for some time now. Sometimes I manage to catch his TV show, and have read some of the things he has written as well.

I listen to Beck, in spite of the fact that he's a Mormon, and in spite of the fact that he's far from a godly man. I've had a lot of time to digest his message, and the means by which he articulates his message. I disagree fundamentally with him on a number of issues politically, theologically, and how he even conducts himself on the TV and radio. What he has to say is not a thus saith the Lord by any stretch of the imagination to me, and I have no doubt in my mind right now that if he died, he would burn forever in the torments of hell.

But be that as it may, I have deliberately chosen to listen to Beck, because I believe he has a unique perspective on things that challenges me to critically reflect upon what is happening in the world we live in. Sometimes I think he hits the nail right on the head, and at other times, I think he takes a swing and misses badly. Sometimes I think he has a very good and positive message. Other times, he makes me sick and I literally turn him off. But either way, I think he is a smart individual who really does his homework on a subject, and I think the investigative reporting he's done on certain issues have been very helpful in understanding some of the things we see going on in this world. How he interprets those things might not always be correct, but personally I have found "the facts" of his arguments to generally be true, even if his personal spin is flawed. Indeed, he brings far more facts to the table than any talking head on the TV or radio that I have ever personally seen, conservative or liberal, and I have always found that very refreshing. He will tell you what he has read, is reading, and plans on reading, and reveals all his sources. I would challenge you to find any political commentator who does that night after night after night. I've personally yet to find any.

As to my thesis that God is using Glenn Beck as a sort of Cyrus to the Church in America, I recognize you might find such a thing as theologically offensive. But so far as I have carefully read through this thread and reflected upon what people have said, I still haven't seen anything put forth that should cause me to change my mind on Biblical grounds. Yes, I realize Glenn Beck is a Mormon, and I am well aware of what Mormons believe. I also realize that Glenn Beck is very libertarian, and am well aware of what libertarians believe. And yes, I realize that Glenn Beck is far from being a godly man, and the tactics he uses on the TV and radio are just as dirty as any two bit politician, and that in many ways, Glenn Beck is a hypocrite.

But even with all that said, I still don't believe any of these things disqualifies God from using Glenn Beck in a Cyrus type of role to speak to the Church. These things no more disqualify Beck from such a position than they disqualified Cyrus from the role he played. Indeed, Isaiah went so far as to call Cyrus, "the Lord's anointed." Do many of you who have objected to what I have said even know who Cyrus was? I fear you have forgotten. Cyrus was a pagan king of the nation of Persia, who held to beliefs that were not exactly Jewish. He likely followed a "prophet" by the name of Zoroaster. He was far from a godly man, and his personal philosophies actually made him a bit of a pluralist. He issued the edict to restore Jerusalem, and said God told him to do it. But he also issued other such edicts for other cities that had suffered a similar fate at the hands of Babylon. He was very "ecumenical" in his policy, because by being so, he figured he'd make more friends politically. He wasn't called "Cyrus the Great" for nothing.

Do I believe Glenn Beck is saved? No. Do I believe he is full of the Spirit? No. Do I believe he has the gospel message right, and is preaching a pure gospel? No!!! But could he still have heard something from God, and be delivering a message from God to the Church? Absolutely. Cyrus did it with the Jews in exile, and I believe God could use Glenn Beck in the same manner. Indeed, Beck's "revival" message no doubt has other motives behind it which do not square away with the kingdom of God. But then again, king Cyrus had other such motives too. But mixed motives and being involved in a counterfeit faith doesn't mean God won't raise men like these up for His purposes, and direct them to speak to His people.

Indeed, I am confident I hear the Lord speaking through Glenn Beck. I'm certain of it. And I don't say that because I like the guy or because I am partial to his political leanings. But I believe the Lord has taken somebody like Glenn Beck, and is using him to try and get our attention. Much in the same way the Lord has been trying to get our attention through the 9-11, Hurricane Katrina, the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan, and a host of other events that have transpired in recent years. "God is trying to wake us up," is something I have heard the Lord saying to me long before Beck was on the scene. But "waking up" is something His people have by in large, have not done. So God has sent us disaster after disaster in an attempt to wake us up.

Likewise, I believe God has also raised up an offensive Mormon like Glenn Beck to speak that to us in order to get our attention. No, not in anyway as an endorsement of Mormonism, or that we should be ecumenical buddies with Beck, or become bleeding heart patriots and tea party members. Far from it. But I believe he has used this Cyrus to speak to us, in part, as an indictment against us for failing to preach the message we were supposed to be to preaching and living all this time. In it, I believe I hear God making a sort of final call for us to set things right as Christians here in America, to "rebuild the temple" that lay in ruins. Christ loves us deeply, and wants us to hear what He has to say, and I don't believe it is beyond the Lord to use such men to speak to us.

Indeed, some of the greatest messages the Lord has spoken into my life was through the mouths of people who were not Christians. They didn't say anything that I didn't know the gospel to already be saying. But in their saying what they said, and I have in mind two very distinct instances, God used these unbelieving blasphemers to speak to me through the Holy Spirit, and bring some much needed correction to my life. Indeed, I was so shocked to hear what I heard then, and to come out of the mouths of unbelievers, that I knew for sure the Lord was challenging me at a level I needed to be challenged at. Indeed, such is actually in keeping with the patterns of God in redemptive history. Indeed, God reminded His people in Isaiah 28:11 that when they refused to listen to Him, He would speak to them through the lips of a foreign nation whom He would raise up, and such was an indictment against them for not being the people He called them to be. And when they heard what amounted to gibberish, they were to know God was trying to get their attention, and calling them to wake up. I believe Beck speaks a lot of gibberish, but in the midst of his gibberish, I hear God speaking very loudly and clearly to the Church in America: Wake up already!

So, don't harden your hearts and clog your ears. God is trying to speak to us, and has raised up a Cyrus to do it. Hear what I personally believe God is saying through men like Glenn Beck.


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/30 22:45Profile









 Re:

Dear little brother Jimmy , you write............

"Stop! Calm down and breathe for a moment. Ok, good."

There is calm Jimmy, there is no " all out war." Perhpas just shock at the naievity, but nothing more than that. Relax brother Jimmy, I think you were understood the first time :) Understood and disagreed with, nothing more complicated than that. There are many old and wise brothers on SI, it may pay to hearken to what they are saying..........brother Frank

 2010/8/30 23:24
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Oh Frankie, go back to Scotland and tell them that Beck is king ;-)


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/30 23:29Profile









 Re:

Jimmy, in Scotland they would say "listen to the elders amongst you,' as was said to Rehoboam. Wise council is not to be sneered at. I would guess that just between Neil and Krispy and myself we may have 160 years. Kinda beats your 20 something :) Be blessed young Jimmy and may your next thesis be better than your last one :) Love you brother.........Frank

 2010/8/30 23:36
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

LOL Frank. And I would say what David said, "I have become wiser than my teachers, because of your law" :-)


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/30 23:39Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi Brother Jimmy...

I tried to read through all of the posts...and I think that everyone brings up some valid points (including you). Personally, I don't watch or listen to Glenn Beck. It isn't that I hate the guy or anything. I just don't really have the time or opportunity to sift through what he says on his radio program.

I also realize that he is a Mormon (which I agree is a filled with false doctrines and phony "Scriptures"); however, that doesn't necessarily make EVERY last thing that he says about government automatically wrong. I also know that he professes to be a libertarian with conservative views on morality...some of which I agree with.

Now, Mr. Beck does criticize quite a bit of the President's policy decisions and goals -- which I see nothing wrong with. After all, the President of the United States is NOT a king. He is merely an elected representative chosen by the will of the people every four years. Personally, I feel that he has been wrong in some of that criticism of President Obama and right on some of that criticism of President Obama.

Of course, there are some good and nice people here on SermonIndex who spent quite a bit of effort doing the same thing with President Bush -- even to the point of packaging harsh criticism in form of "words" from God that even openly questioned the sincerity of his claim to be a Christian (and ironically, right or wrong, remain silent during this current administration). Yes, Christians can be funny about this sort of thing.

Can God use Mr. Beck? I suppose that God can use anything and anyone for His purpose. I agree with many of the things that Glenn Beck supposedly believes -- such as the sanctity of unborn life. Before I was born, there was an unsaved man and woman who believe abortion was wrong...and urged my mother to not have an abortion (which my biological father was insisting upon). They convinced my mother -- and I am alive today. So, yeah, I believe that God can use an unsaved person to do something "good." After all, Rahab the prostitute "by faith" helped the spies (Hebrews 11:31).

Do I believe that Glenn Beck will bring about a religious revival? Nah.

However, I am happy that he at least made a public effort to get people to consider spiritual matters. Too often, I think that we Christians hide our faith under a bushel of the family, Church, Christian friends and Christian forums. This guy (who I think is obviously flawed) at least had the audacity to tell the world from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial to consider spiritual matters. I wonder how many Christians in our churches have done that during the last year -- even on a local level?

So...I think that everyone has made some good points. I did read a bit about the rally in DC. I even saw some of it some online. However, I still won't turn on my radio to listen every day. Still, I think that it is sad that there was a sinner doing the work that most Christians won't do...proclaiming (amongst other things) that the people in this country of our temporary dwelling need "to return to God."


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Christopher

 2010/8/31 1:41Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

I'm still all for starting at the foundation and getting definitions... Jimmy, is there a New Testament example that you can think of that would substantiate your initial thesis? Just curious.
Joe

 2010/8/31 3:10Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

A New Testament example:

Caiaphas the high priest prophesied the death of Christ.

Cornelius had a vision and word from the Lord prior to his conversion.

But even if these examples don't suffice, the Old Testament is full of examples, of which Paul said that those things we read about happened for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages have come. God using pagans, and even an ass to deliver a word from the Lord are frequent occurrences in the Old Testament.

Not to sound crass, but I bet if I bet I had entitled this thread, "Glenn Beck is an ass" (in the KJV sense of the term), people would have been more willing to accept my thesis. Indeed, I bet even Frank would repent in sackcloth and ashes if I changed it right now, wouldn't you Frankie? :-)

*edited for content after the fact*


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Jimmy H

 2010/8/31 5:54Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Do I believe that Glenn Beck will bring about a religious revival? Nah.



Such I would never assert myself. But I don't doubt that God is using him, in part, to give us a sort of wake up call.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/8/31 8:45Profile





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