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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1 Thess 4:4 Your wife or your vessel?

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

If we put this verse back into its original content we get.

"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;" 1 Th 4:3–5 NKJV

the whole context of this is the wider issue of personal purity. To the people at Corinth Paul had to remind them that their bodies were not their own to use as they willed...

"Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body." 1 Cor 6:13 NKJV

To the Romans he admonished...

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Rom 12:1–2 NKJV

Bringing the body under Christ's control is a recurring theme of the epistles. To the Corinthians Paul had reminded them that this included their marital relationships.

"The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does." 1 Cor 7:4 NKJV

but while these are key spiritual concepts which reach even into the marital bed, I am convinced that Paul is not referring to marriage alone in 1Thess 4:4 but to every aspect of sexuality.


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Ron Bailey

 2010/8/17 17:23Profile









 Re:

Your vessel as in "you", whether married or not is the beginning, and not the conclusion of the matter.
IF one chooses to believe that this verse is only talking about marriage, that is what it will mean to them.

i am not of the mind to think that this passage regards only marital fidelity and sexuality. All scripture is profitable to all people.

Purity and sanctification step quite a bit further than running from sexual immorality. On guard, and always fleeing this opens the doorway to greater purity and sactification in the other areas of life.

In context with the whole of scripture, if we are thinking in terms of fleeing pornia (fornication) alone, Jesus stated that even this is relative outside the congress of husband and wife:


~of purity

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt. 5.27-30



~of sanctifications

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Mk. 10.7-12

Even considering only the case of sexual immorality, be it regarding purity and/or sanctification, situations outside man and wife, as well as the marriage bed are relative.





Whther sexual or something else, lust is always lust, and born out of coveteousness.

It is idolatry.

Sexual moors and proclivities are one of the clearer indications regarding the stage of reprobation(=idol worship) that has a grasp on an individual (or people group), evaluating Paul's writing about this in Romans 1.

There is a much greater principle afoot than just sanctification and purity in "possession of your vessel",
as posession of your vessel --(by whatever terms considered)-- in living life involves denying yourself in Jesus Christ, whether married or not, in bed or out of it, irregardless of the intimacy of relationship.



Love, Hope, and Faith,
gregg

...I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
Acts 20:31-32


edited: because it was needed (spelling err, incomplete thought, etc)

 2010/8/17 18:13
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

====================================
Philologos wrote:

but while these are key spiritual concepts which reach even into the marital bed, I am convinced that Paul is not referring to marriage alone in 1Thess 4:4 but to every aspect of sexuality.

=======================================

Yes, I seem to think so too. I hadn't known there was any discussion about this verse until I was reading it in Spanish. It's all very interesting. It does seem to just be a matter of interpretation. I'm not sure I like putting so much of it into the translation though. Obviously, you have to interpret as you translate, but my philosophy would be to keep it at a minimum unless necessary.

Thank you everyone for your input.


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Josh Parsley

 2010/8/17 19:12Profile









 Re: 1 Thess 4:4 Your wife or your vessel?

It would be better to use the Reina Valera Gomez which uses the Textus Receptus and fixes many of the errors of the Reina Valera 1960.

2
Porque ya sabéis qué mandamientos os dimos por el Señor Jesús.
3
Porque ésta es la voluntad de Dios, vuestra santificación; que os abstengáis de fornicación;
4
que cada uno de vosotros sepa tener su vaso en santificación y honor;
5
no en pasión de concupiscencia, como los gentiles que no conocen a Dios.


2
For you know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you abstain from fornication;
4
that each of you know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor;
5
not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God.

 2015/8/30 11:05
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1549
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Would it not be both for the married man seeing how he and his wife are one flesh (vessel) and only for the individual in the case of an unmarried person?


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Fletcher

 2015/8/30 14:04Profile









 Re:

1 Thessalonians 4:4
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

Wives are "heirs together of the grace of life". Some camps don't view them as such but only as subservient to the husband, with no individuality at all.

1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being HEIRS TOGETHER OF THE GRACE OF LIFE; that your prayers be not hindered.

Continuing in the same context where Paul was addressing, "every ONE of you", he now says, "that no man", not "no men". He is still speaking to each individual within the group and it only makes sense since both husband and wife, (heirs together of the grace of life), are individually responsible for their own heart and walk. They are individually responsible for abiding in Christ and possessing their vessel in honor.

1 Thessalonians 4:6
That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

 2015/8/30 23:08
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Wives are "heirs together of the grace of life". Some camps don't view them as such but only as subservient to the husband, with no individuality at all.



AMEN! Wives are to submit to their husbands and they are to reverence their husbands. If one really studies what this means, it is quite eye-opening. Reverence in the context of a wife, "seeing that she reverence her husband" is the Greek phobia, which is the same word used as we are to fear the Lord. At the same time men are to love their wives and give themselves for their wives. It is the order of marriage given by God. It is the way that husbands and wives relate so that they can be the one team that God intends for them to be in serving Him. This does not mean to be subservient as a slave might be. It means to be in subjection to him in the same way that the church loves and is subjection to Christ. My wife and I are heirs together and we both must keep this in mind as we relate to one another. She is a HUGE strength to me, and she often has great wisdom in areas where I lack great wisdom. She balances me in such a wonderful way. Without her, and without her input into my life, I would only be half the man I am.


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Travis

 2015/9/5 16:32Profile





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