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learn
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Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re: Special Message from Mike Bickle, founder of the International House of Prayer

There is something that bothers me a fair bit in this youtube video which I attach after the 1st paragraph. Why when Lou Engle preaches, his body keeps moving front and back --that's just seem very strange and I have never ever seen any godly pastor doing that before. (this action I feel is not a normal behavior at all and more like 'hypnotic' movement). I saw a few people there also doing that. In fact, I found that I could actually move a bit front and back myself sort of hypnotically. However I stopped. I suspect it has something to do with the music played there when the preaching was going on (the music I found was subconsciouly hypnotic.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsb9GJHhPBM


I saw the official trailer for the Sacramento call--didn't see anybody writhing but saw the front and back movement again from a group (in a circle) praying and Lou Engle doing it again. (again I've never come across any revival that have people praying like that). Also, saw them lifting up 'bronze snakes'--guess they were thinking of the time in the desert where anybody that saw the snake was healed.

Really do not know what to make of Ihop but this is just something I notice which worries me and does not make me interested in them. Whether they are true or false believers of Christ, I have no idea


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geraldine

 2010/8/11 17:08Profile









 Re: just something positive

first to my brothers Matthew and Mike (abide) i personally meant no offense about IHOP/KC. i've never been there, dont know Mr Bickle, nor Mr Engle, but i sure am glad you both been blessed by this ministry. from my heart and my soul i mean that.

just personally...me...i'm a little leery of any thing "Vineyard", or anything that might involve Todd Bentley, or the fella thats giving him covering, i forgot his name, or John Crowder, and that whole crew "whacked up mystics getting high on the glowray", etc etc.

which is my whole point, i went to the call website, and i'm leery of several of those "leaders" they have on that page, which is why i quoted from Malachi 1:9-10.

and then i looked at the youtube video, "learn" posted, and watched Lou Engle for a spell, till i got bored, and put Dr. Michael Brown in the search bar and found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS8rLJbRUQc

i love dear Michael Brown, and he speaks about the american Church, i hope you find it of some profit. i wish i could bundle it up and speak it forth like Dr, Brown. i love you all in Messiah.

neil

 2010/8/11 18:48
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1123
Germany NRW

 Re:


I see a pattern of compulsive moving backwards and forwards in some of the ihop videos. I have seen it in other people who have been involved in ihop or a Toronto type of "revival" It appears that the whole audience is somewhat given into this waving rhythm. Even by just watching these videos, I sense a sort of enchantment. Can we "pray down" a revival?
I was once at a conference where somebody wanted to "pray down" a revival. Right at that time some of those hosting the event announced for the owner of a car that obstructed a passage to remove it because the police had come. It was the very person who had just prayed.

Do we need to tell God what to do? Is it that we are more eager than God to change our nation and God is indifferent and slow to do the good he supposed to do? Is is not rather we who need to be moved? Is is not rather that we surrender and yield to Him and let Him be Lord and deal with us as he wishes?

I do not feel comfortable with this movement though they say many right things and there may be many sincere Christians among them. There is a world of difference between this movement and some of the likes of Denny Kennaston and Keith Daniel.

 2010/8/11 18:55Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3589
Louisiana

 Re: jusy something positive

Nathan,

I love Michael Brown also. He is a fine teacher and his school of ministry impacted many young people during the Brownsville revival.

I have been around many people that have trembled and even shook in the presence of the Lord, and I can tell you that what these young people are experiencing and manifesting is not from an evil spirit. I am not saying that I agree with every manifestation that goes on at Ihop. The counterfeit will always try to get it. There are always going to be fleshly manifestations because people are different and respond to the presence of God differntly.

I don't understand why it would bother anyone the manner is which Lou Engel prays. I have seen a whole churches of Christians in Korea swaying back and forth as they pray.

There are some that are calling IHOP demonic because they do not like the contemporary music that is being played. The young people that I know that have gone to IHOP and are involved in praise and worship at our church are on fire for the Lord, and are bold witnesses for Jesus Christ. These are the young people that are going in the schools and praying, and are being used by the Lord outside of the four walls of the church. They are reaching the unchurched.

I am not so much concerned with whether they shake or not, but how is their walk with the Lord. I am blessed to be part of a church where the strong word of God is taught, and the church is being prepared for what is coming in this country. The saints are being discipled, and these young people are part of what God is doing.

Yes, we should use discernment, and I have never seen anyone slithering on the floor like a snake or manifesting demonically among those that have been to Ihop. Let us prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2010/8/11 19:08Profile









 Re:

I too am not going to bother with watching Bickle. I feel like eating a Pickle.

 2010/8/11 20:11
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re:

How can how Lou Engel's preaching does not bother me. It bothers me greatly because this compulsive moving back and forth is strange and to me seems unbiblical. I've never come across any genuine pastors or genuine revivals where the main pastors act this way.

In fact, if Leonard Ravenhill, Spurgeon (if both were alive), John Piper, Paul Washer etc started doing that, I would really start questioning and may stop listening to their sermons. So, I'm not being bias here. I'm applying this criteria to every pastor and am not trying to pick on Ihop.

While I believe there is some genuine revival in Korea, I believe there are also a lot of false revivals going there as well.

Back to Ihop, I would like to stress that I do not know whether Ihop and the founders are genuine Christ followers or not. (to me, compulsive moving back and forth while preaching is far from enough to determine whether one is a genuine Christian). Its just that this action of compulsive swaying back and forth by Lou Engle coupled with some disturbing facts that I've heard about what goes on there makes me disinterested in following them. I feel much safer and secure following other pastors such as Spurgeon.


edited for clarity's sake


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geraldine

 2010/8/11 22:15Profile









 learn

am i wrong in the impression that you just come loaded for bear and looking for argument and fuss?

tell me that impression is wrong, will ya?

 2010/8/11 22:31
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: learn

A gentle reminder to all of us, myself included.

Matthew 23:27, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness."


_________________
Christiaan

 2010/8/12 0:12Profile
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re: learn

Natan4Jesus, I do not know whether your question was addressed to me but if it is your impression is certainly wrong. I brought up the clip because I wanted people to at least see this and think carefully and see what the scriptures say before making up their minds on whether they should go and attend Ihop for this event or in the future. I don't want to see people that are looking to find God search in the wrong places and I'm just not sure whether Ihop is for real or not.



Why cannot we see this as some Christians that are concerned and just wanted people to have more facts and think carefully before committing to something that can be potentially dangerous. Just because I or some others 'warned' against something doesn't mean that we have bad intentions. In the bible, Paul warns against many things. Pray that our thoughts will not be negative when people warn of certain things.


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geraldine

 2010/8/12 3:51Profile









 Re:

I was at onething last year right after the outpouring happened. A lot of it is hyped up. I did not feel the holy spirit move in a crazy way. Wes Hall was trying to get the people to call out for the manifestations but it wasn't really happening. I even spoke to a guy who went up and said he got healed and my gut instinct was that he wasn't 100% genuine.

I still question IHOP. I'm in the middle, I'm not sure if it's legit or not but the prophesies were spot on the 3 times I went.

IHOP sometimes focuses too much on their own power and some say they have a superiority complex. The mark of a superchristian is that he is humble and thinks he is lower than others like Paul. IHOPers have a superiority complex and all other christians aren't as close to God as they are.

They also have their own lingo and it's posted on their site.

Read this blog below to get some ideas from an ex IHOP staffer.

http://gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com

http://gospelmasquerade.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-i-believe-ihop-is-cult.html

Andrew Strom used to work with IHOP and has since cut ties with them saying that they use centering prayer a meditation that calls the kunlandini spirit for prayer.

There is just way too much controversy and the perceived holiness does not seem to come from the right source. It's very performance based.

 2010/9/5 5:42





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