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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "If you want to be born again, say these words..."

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osandoval
Member



Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

The most common objection proposed by propenents of this method goes something like this:

"Well, what if the person being led to the Lord has never prayed before or does not know how to pray?"

But if someone is truly repentant a prayer from the heart will flow naturally, without anyone needing to lead them in it. It will just come out. And the prayer will vary from person to person. Some may cry out a simple, "God be merciful to me the sinner", while others may go into more detail and confess specific sins.

I can say from my own testimony that when I came to Christ I did not "know how to pray". I did not grow up in church. But at that moment I just cried out for His forgiveness as best as I knew how from my heart, and He heard my cry, praise be to God!!!

From past evangelism I've done, I found that it is pretty easy to lead someone in this type of "sinners prayer". I used to do it quite often with hardly any complication. But when I did follow up I could not find one single soul who had a desire to follow Christ. It is one of those things that haunts me to this very day, because I know that most, if not all those souls I led in this prayer were encouraged in a false hope. We do not need this method.

Many say that the fact that some people get saved through it justifies the use of it. But that's like justifying Benny Hinn's or other heretical ministries, just because some do get saved through them.

 2010/8/4 13:44Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

believingGod
Thank you, I am glad it was useful to you...

You might like to listen to this... it is called "are you qualified?"

http://bit.ly/9gbfVd

It is a message I preached a couple of years ago in Canada on Colossians. Colossians has the famous 'as ye have received Christ Jesus the Lord..' and in this message I try to explain how we are to understand what that phrase meant to Paul.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2010/8/5 12:59Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

"Thanks so much to all who contributed to this thread thus far with their reply.

You may or may not have noticed the quotation marks in my original post. The reason for the quotation marks being that it is a quote taken from a website.

The website it was taken from is the website of the speaker of the present featured sermon here on sermonindex.

The article it was taken from is entitled, "A Clear Gospel Message."

Also at the bottom of the website is the following:"


I have read the article that you are talking about and I have to say that its a solid article up until I got to this part of the article that you quoted or atleast I disagree with the use of the Sinner's Prayer, and out of all the thing that I have seen from brother Zac Poonen I have agreed with everything except this. I do know that Brother Zac and his ministry has one of the best discipleship programs that I have seen.

God Bless,
Matthew


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2010/8/5 13:09Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This prerequisite of believing is God has given eternal life and this life in His Son. So rest assured that to believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that God has already given eternal Life to those that believe, lest they could not believe. "This is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son."
By that record we can now rest assured that we have eternal life and may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Most people don't see this prerequisite to believing. They think it all up to them. Then they can be saved. It is all up to God. Now I believe. This is our prayer for the unsaved, Father give the Son to those that don't believe that they may become the son's of God and believe.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Who are the whosoever? Those that have been give the Son that they might believe.

John 3:17-21 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

"He that has the Son hath life".

How? Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/8/6 20:20Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Christinyou on 2010/8/6 22:20:38 writes...
"This prerequisite of believing is God has given eternal life and this life in His Son. So rest assured that to believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that God has already given eternal Life to those that believe, lest they could not believe. "This is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son."
By that record we can now rest assured that we have eternal life and may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Is this essentially the Calvinist position that you are taking, that regeneration is a prerequisite to faith?


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Ron Bailey

 2010/8/7 2:16Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Never studied Calvin, never use any of His work, except a quote or two when it aligns with scripture. Calvin is not the Word of God. That is what I study most. I don't believe in Calvinism because I Don't really know what it is.

I have one mentor, He is the head of Christ life fellowship.
Warren Litzman, even then he must align with scripture or the Word takes me to another place of truth,

I do believe God must give Christ and Grace to the believer before he can believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Christ revealed Himself to Paul and Paul states this very plainly, that he is in Christ and Christ is in Him. Three years of revelation direct from Christ now gives us the truth of Christ in the believer. Christ cannot be with us to believe like Thomas, but blessed are those that believe and have not seen. That belief must come from somewhere, I believe it comes from God the Father when He births His Son in us, The Incorruptable Seed Himself. That gives us the assurance that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. John 5:11 12, and many other places, to believe in Christ is supernatural because He is not standing before us. Jesus knocked Paul of his horse, in a loud voice said, "Paul, Paul", blinded Him, told him who he was going to be and what he was going to do and then studied with him three years. No wonder Paul calls it "My Gospel". Special for him that we might know the special calling of Jesus also and being placed in the believer as God elects all those that are his. John 6:44-45 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 18:9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

I believe Jesus never will loose any the Father gives Him.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/8/7 3:35Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:
From past evangelism I've done, I found that it is pretty easy to lead someone in this type of "sinners prayer". I used to do it quite often with hardly any complication. But when I did follow up I could not find one single soul who had a desire to follow Christ. It is one of those things that haunts me to this very day, because I know that most, if not all those souls I led in this prayer were encouraged in a false hope. We do not need this method.



I can agree brother, but brother do you think another "method" would have helped? we can not by any formula or prayer or any other "human" method convert people, no matter the method if they where not genuinely born again they would not have been with another methot either, i think the problem goes deeper, i suspect we are trying to get a harvest without having sowed anything.

A great sermon or atleast i think so, and a scriptural one as i understand scriptures and many many good advice how to lead someone to Christ is this one; helps in soul winning by Gerhart Du Toit http://media.sermonindex.net/4/SID4131.mp3


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CHRISTIAN

 2010/8/7 6:49Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Christinyou on 2010/8/7 5:35:21 writes:
"Christ revealed Himself to Paul and Paul states this very plainly, that he is in Christ and Christ is in Him."

Christ revealed himself TO Paul before he revealed himself IN Paul


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Ron Bailey

 2010/8/7 7:57Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I do believe God must give Christ and Grace to the believer before he can believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.



Phillip: If I said that the Holy Spirit must reveal to us the truth of who Christ is and what He has done (some old timers called it enlightenment), and that the faith that we place in Christ for our salvation are both things given us of God, would I be saying what you are trying to say?


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Travis

 2010/8/7 9:16Profile
osandoval
Member



Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

hmmhmm wrote:

Quote:
I can agree brother, but brother do you think another "method" would have helped? we can not by any formula or prayer or any other "human" method convert people, no matter the method if they where not genuinely born again they would not have been with another methot either, i think the problem goes deeper, i suspect we are trying to get a harvest without having sowed anything.



Yes, I agree its not just the method,but also the message being presented, and the right heart with which you present it. Yet even with the right message and heart we will do more harm than good if we impliment this unscriptural method at the end. The concern I have is that multitudes are lured into deeper sleep through this method. I believe we will be safest when we endeavor to stick closest to the biblical message and the patterns we see in Scripture in presenting that message. In other words, when we endeavor to do things the way Jesus, the prophets and apostles did when preaching the gospel.
Thanks for sharing the link. I'll have to check it out when I get some time.

 2010/8/7 11:41Profile





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