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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches

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 Hi Narrowpath

You're very gracious. No problem. (I've certainly had my moments!)

 2010/7/26 19:53
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
#3. Priscilla and Aquilla. No reference made if one of these two people were female. For all we know, Priscilla and Aquilla are two brothers living in the same house. (Personal opinion noted here... If you know families with a lot of children, sometimes they will name siblings very similar names. Not many folks marry people with similar names. Stating my opinion only).



Act 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.

Could it be that the admonitions that Paul was giving these particular groups were based more on the social norms of the day concerning women in those specific places? Case in point, 1Co 14:34
(34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Some thoughts on this scripture. Paul tells the Corinthians specifically to let YOUR women keep silent. The "churches" in this context seem to be indistinguishable from the Jewish synagogues. Christians were often going to synagogues in order to expound and share Christ. Paul did so, Jesus did so. The law never said that women should keep quiet in a Christian meeting, but rather in the synagogue. Granted one cannot absolutely say this point of view is right, but it is worth considering.

Personally I have known many women who prophecy, give messages in tongues and interpret such messages, and who operate in a great power of the Holy Spirit. Their ministry is genuine and anointed.


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Travis

 2010/7/26 20:45Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Just some food for thought: But did you know that the word for "wife" and "woman" are the exact same in the Greek? As one minister I heard suggest, the prohibitions we often read as being against women speaking isn't so much against women speaking as it is wives usurping their husbands. There is nothing grammatically that demands "women/woman" be translated as such. It is just as valid to translate every instance of woman as "wife."

Contextually, this makes sense as well, since in exhortations for women to ask their husbands at home simply could not apply to a single woman, who had no husband to ask. Thus, Paul's admonitions could be understood to say that a wife should basically never dishonor her husband in a public assembly of the church by usurping his place, and not as a strict prohibition against speaking during a service. Quite the contrary, as has been pointed out already, there are no shortage of examples of women having a public speaking ministry in the New Testament.

In my mind, such makes a great harmony between the texts that seem to limit women in ministry, and the fact that we have clear cut data showing that women were very active and vocal in ministry.


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Jimmy H

 2010/7/26 21:59Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

twayneb wrote:

"Act 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them."


I stand corrected in light of scripture. Husband and wife.


Here is a reference to ponder.

We do not claim to know the spirit and balance of how Priscilla and Aquila and Apollos related to each other. We only claim that a feminist reconstruction of the relationship has no more warrant than ours. The right of Priscilla to hold an authoritative teaching office cannot be built on an event about which we know so little. It is only a guess to suggest that the order of their names signifies Priscilla’s leadership. Luke may simply have wanted to give greater honor to the woman by putting her name first (1 Peter 3:7), or may have had another reason unknown to us. Saying that Priscilla illustrates the authoritative teaching of women in the New Testament is the kind of precarious and unwarranted inference that is made again and again by evangelical feminists and then called a major Biblical thrust against gender-based role distinctions. But many invalid inferences do not make a major thrust.

Recovering Biblical Manhood & Womanhood - A Response to Evangelical Feminism - Piper and Grudem, Chapter 2, Pg. 68-69.

www.desiringgod.org/media/pdf/books_bcq/bbmw_chapter_2.pdf




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Christiaan

 2010/7/26 22:35Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. - (Rom 16:7 NASB)

Just a thought to toss in for study and reflection, but in this verse here, we discover a woman by the name of Junias (which is Gk. feminine) is being named along with Adronicus, as being "outstanding among the apostles," which means they were apostles.

So, if Paul recognized a woman as an apostle (an outstanding one at that), then it is not hard to imagine that his theology of women in ministry isn't has restrictive as we sometimes imagine it to be.


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Jimmy H

 2010/7/27 0:17Profile









 Re: Master of Understatement

"If Paul recognized a woman as an apostle (an outstanding one at that), then it is not hard to imagine that his theology of women in ministry isn't as restrictive as we sometimes imagine it to be." (King Jimmy)

Hear, hear.

 2010/7/27 1:04
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

This post has been edifying i must say i am learning more stuff. Gordon Fee "Listening to the Spirit in the text" touches on Pauline theology to which he alludes to the fact that Paul may have recognized women ministers and that some women had misunderstood their identity in Christ and instead of giving themselves in subjection to their husbands they spoke out of turn and had attitudes that threatened the marriage institutions itself (paraphrasing)

1 Corinthians 14:34-38

goo-nay'
(a woman; specifically a wife: - *wife*, woman.)

an'-ayr
a man (properly as an individual male): - fellow, *husband*, man, sir.



34 [goo-nay'] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, *as the Law says*. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own [an'-ayr] at home; for it is disgraceful for a [goo-nay'] to speak in the church.


1. looking that the Greek in that scripture its clear that Paul is speaking about certain unruly women speaking out of turn and not being in submission to their husbands. It seems husbands where supposed to be the spiritual head of their homes and teach their households and the elder women in the church community took responsibility for teaching young women.

2. *but must be in submission as the Law says* what law is he referring to? Wifes being made subject to husband after the fall in the garden of eden or is there a specific command in the torah ? either way it seems to point to wifes as the proper translation rather than women.

3. If All Men took a stand like Joshua and declared "As for me and my house we shall server the lord" would we have this issue to start with? How many single parent / divorced households are there these days where the women have assumed the role of a man because the man was a "Slacker" as someone has already alluded to

 2010/7/27 5:56Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I thank God for the ministry of women. Sister Okie at my last church was a godly grandmother who loved the Lord, trusted in Him with all her heart, and earnestly prayed to the Lord for the salvation of all her immediate and extended family.

She was a mighty woman of faith, full of the Spirit and good works. She walked with a broken heart, serving the church and the homeless without fail. She regularly filled the pews, and many in her family came to know the Lord. She held no official position in the Church, but when she spoke to you in person or stood on a Sunday morning to testify or exhort the body, you listened. She walked with authority and power, because God was with her. She was a pastor to many, though never given such a position. Even our male elders recognized her in this capacity, even if never officially. Indeed, she functioned humbly in such a role, even more than some of them did.

Her husband was a spiritual infant and backwards. Thank God she didn't just sit quietly and try to support his "ministry." I wouldn't be who I am today if she had, and hell would be more full.


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Jimmy H

 2010/7/27 6:48Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
Dear Lysa, RonaldGoetz and everybody else


Quote:
Anybody sulking ?




You got me, I agree, sorry, that comment was out of place, and I had not prayed, forgive me please.



Forgiven!

God bless you,
Lysa


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Lisa

 2010/7/27 6:53Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Rainman wrote:

"3. If All Men took a stand like Joshua and declared "As for me and my house we shall server the lord" would we have this issue to start with? How many single parent / divorced households are there these days where the women have assumed the role of a man because the man was a "Slacker" as someone has already alluded to"


A "Nail head hitter" again. When are men going to stand up and be men. So many men today are content with assuming the biblical role (and the non-biblical wordly role as well) of women and reversing the true roles that the Lord intended us for.

Thanks Rainman


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Christiaan

 2010/7/27 9:25Profile





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