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ChristianGuy
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Joined: 2010/7/24
Posts: 1


 Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches

I'm not so sure about differences between Foursquare and Assemblies of God Churches, but they both seem intent on a feminist mission of establishing female "pastors" in the ministry.

I suppose this makes sense since pentecostals tend to be more emotional in their worship style; not necessarily a bad thing, but just trying to discover the underlying motives here.

Good people, for sure, though would like to explore this more.

 2010/7/24 21:39Profile
StarofG0D
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Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Re: Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches

I've seen many a brethren that are quite emotional in their worship. Perhaps read about the spirit of Jezebel and you will find your answer??


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Michelle

 2010/7/24 21:53Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

If you wish to understand this topic, and are actually serious about it, I would suggest you find a couple books on the subject. A few books on the history of the Pentecostal movement would be a good foundational read. I suggest starting with "Heaven Below: Early Pentecostals and American Culture." To date, I've yet to read a better book on the subject of the developments of Pentecostalism, which includes the controversial topic of women in ministry. Women were a leading force in the Pentecostal movement from early on.


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Jimmy H

 2010/7/24 23:48Profile
eternalpunx
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Joined: 2010/1/25
Posts: 4


 Re: Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches

The thing about AG churches is that they are part of a network of independent churches. With that construct, there are differences allowed including the placement of women in ministry roles. I am a pentecostal and do not believe in women in authority roles as I was taught in AG churches. However, throughout the Bible, God used women, such as Deborah, to lead His people. Joel prophesied that God would pour His Spirit on men and women in the last days.


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Erin Matt

 2010/7/25 7:57Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2071


 Re: Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches

The book that one of the posters suggested can be read at:

www.scribd.com/doc/17639141/Heaven-Below-Early-Pentecostals

I'd recommend a book as well. "The Feminist Mistake" – by Mary Kassian

Here is a short review of the book:

Do the teachings of feminism square with Scripture? Is it possible to be a Christian and a Feminist at the same time? Have the teachings of feminism been a positive influence on the culture, church and family? The answer to these questions become glaringly apparent as ones reads The Feminist Mistake.

Just as the title suggests, the feminist movement was a mistake, and has had detremental effects upon the culture, as well as the church. Women have been duped into believing they are entitled to a type of freedom that ends up being no freedom at all. Rather than embracing the biblical role of helper and submitting to the Godappointed leaders of the home and the church, women have forfeited true freedom.

Mary Kassian has written a history of the feminist movement in which she traces the thought processes of the key figures as it developed over the years. Pivotal figures such as Mary Daly, Virginia Mollenkott, Rosemary Radford Ruether, Letty Russell, Carol Christ and others are allowed to speak for themselves as Kassian presents their own writings.

The first stage of feminism was re-naming self. Women wanted the right to determine who they were apart from outside influences. They wanted the right to be equal with men, which was a short-lived goal. This soon escalated to the desire to be considered superior to men.

The second stage consisted of re-naming the world. Every aspect of life was reevaluted from a woman’s perspective. This was done through small groups called conscious raising groups where women’s thinking was reprogrammed. Even if
women were satisfied with their life as a wife and mother, they were considered to be in denial and needed their consciences “raised”.

Finally, the last stage, inevitably led to re-naming God. No longer could women who had rejected the roles previously held by women worship a male deity. Thus,they took measures to reform the church, including the liturgy, hymns,vocabulary and anything else that reminded them of maleness.

Interestingly, Kassian’s last section, “Shock Waves” shows how one generation later, the radical, far left tenets of feminism are now adopted as mainstream ideology. She also shows that no matter where a woman began with feminism,
whether as a Christian in the church, or as a secularist in society, all roads lead to the same conclusion. Each of the three stages is evident from both perspectives and
ultimately leads to a rejection of the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible.

This book, far from being a dry, boring, laborious history lesson on feminism, is an easy to read, interesting wake-up call to the dangers of feminism.

You may also read some more reviews of the book,as well as the "Introduction" and first chapter of the book, "The Problem Without A Name" at the following link:

http://www.monergismbooks.com/pdfs/feministmistake.pdf

 2010/7/25 8:05Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches


ChristianGuy,

First off let me say that if you search out every reference to Jezebel in Scripture, none is associated with emotionalism. Rev 2.20 explains exactly what Jezebel is guilty of (and it's not being emotional in worship).

Women preaching is not a direct correlation to femininism - although, I'm sure there are many femininist's who preach. John Wesley was one of the first preachers to allow women to preach, one of them being his wife. You may come to a different conclusion after this thread but I do not think that women have conspired (or been on a feminist mission) down through the centuries to "take over" the pulpit of Christianity.

I already know that many will disagree with my statement! I would just like to point out that we who believe in women preachers do not get all upset and call the others who don't believe names and make unscriptural assumptions about them like they do us (point in being, the Jezebel and emotional in their worship. And humbly, I point out even in your original statement).

Also, where would 'missions' be without all the single women who dared to go into the middle of nowhere and preach the Gospel first before men?

Here is a quote with some good questions:

Quote:
"If Christ be in the Female as well as in the Male, is not he the same? And may not the Spirit of Christ speak in the Female as well as in the Male? Is he there to be limited? Who is it that dare limit the Holy one of Israel? For the Light is the same in the Male, and in the Female, which cometh from Christ."
(John Fox 1656 Treatise?)




God bless you in your search for truth in this area,
Lysa


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Lisa

 2010/7/25 8:53Profile
mguldner
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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

The Jezebel is not a spirit of emotionalism at all actually as Sister Lisa has pointed out, I have done some research on that particular spirit and have found that Jezebel is a spirit of Death and Jealously rathern emotionalism. Jezebel had a nasty habit of usurping the set in place authority rather submiting to it. This meaning she was not the authority but acted as if she was the authority. This doesn't mean all women preachers operate in this spirit. More or less though a Jezebel spirit won't be manifest until the Ahab spirit is manifest with it as well someone in authority that is weak minded and allows his/her authority to be usurpted with little fight. I have been in many churches where these spirits operate and are very possibly still active, one church it killed the entire church. I would like to make one final point the Jezebel spirit is no respector of Gender a man or a woman can operate in this spirit easily if not kept in check. We often pin the Jezebel spirit on females because Jezebel was a female but we must also keep in mind that those pointing the finger may be operating in a Jezebel spirit because Jezebel is also a spirit of false accusation. So saints beware of pointing the finger at our female pastors and preachers.


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/7/25 9:40Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1113
Germany NRW

 Re:

1. Cor 14

34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40Let all things be done decently and in order.

1. Tim
8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

 2010/7/25 12:54Profile
myfirstLove
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Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re: Feminism Of AG and Foursquare Churches

King David seemed very emotional in his worship to God (he even danced for the Lord). King David definetly showed much passion in His relationship to God. Read Psalms, the ones he wrote!!

There is nothing wrong with men showing passion for the ONE who saved their soul!!



Lisa


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Lisa

 2010/7/25 18:27Profile
Solomon101
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Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 531
America's Heartand

 Re:

I realize this may not sit well theologically with those from a cessationist viewpoint. However, please consider the following......

1. What does it mean, "to prophesy"?.

Since the supernatural revelatory utterance in a known
language is rejected by cessationists it is normally
defined as "preaching".

2. Please descibe how these scriptures would not then mean
that a female was teaching/preaching... including to
men!

Acts 2:17-18 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:And on my servants and on my HANDMAIDENS I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and THEY SHALL PROPHESY: KJV. Caps mine

Acts 21:8-9 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. And the same man had FOUR DAUGHTERS, VIRGINS, WHICH DID PROPHESY. KJV. Caps mine

Another thought...we have the apostle Apollos submitting himself to and being instructed by a female...

Acts 18:24-26 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, THEY took him unto them, and EXPOUNDED unto him the way of God more perfectly.KJV. Caps mine.

The rub always seems to be in Paul's "usurping authority" clause. However, the only ministry gift that requires the usurping of authority over a man at times is the office/gift of pastor. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, and teachers do not require that action. It would seem that the only office/gift that God would put off limits from a woman might be that of pastor. However, apostles, prophets, evangelists, and teachers might well be females. I suspect that the reason may be that the discipline of "usurping authority" often required by a faithful pastor is just not in the emotional make up of most females...I am not aware of scripture for that...is just my instinct. I have seen females serve as pastors...but I am convinced it was because some guy was a spiritual slacker and had not stepped into his calling. In essence the female pastor was not God's best... however she had a heart for God's people and was available so He allowed her to temporarily step into that ministry.

However, there seems to be little doubt that females were preaching and teaching in the New Testament church. If Paul did not mean for them to ever do so then he would appear to be the ultimate hypocrite when he saw Philips daughters prophesying in Acts 21:8-9 and did not stop or condemn it. In fact the account in Acts paints them in a very positive light!

 2010/7/26 10:28Profile





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