SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Bible Contradictions

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

To Codex; Regarding disciples versus being saved; This is an excellent question! I have heard of people for years that go to John 15:16 to try to prove that the Lord chooses folks to be saved,(Pre destinated/Hyper Calvinism) the new Bible versions change 1 Thess.1:4 from "your election of God" to read that "God chose you." In the matter of being Jesus disciple, it says in Luke 6:12 that after praying all night, he "chose" 12 disciples. These 12 "disciples (whom he "chose"/John 15:16)were "chosen" to go the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel and one of them was "a devil." (Never saved!/John 6:70) So you can see the importance of context. St. Paul was a disciple/Apostle but he went first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. (His office/Romans 11:13) When God picks people to be Apostles/Prophets He chooses, we don't....I mean He distibutes the Gifts, "dividing to every man severally as He will." So if you have a Gift from God (Such as salvation)it is free and you didn't work for it...only received it. In 1 Cor. 4:7 (which will point back to Eph.2:8,9) St. Paul reminds us that everything that we have....we received. "Where is boasting then?" (Romans 3:27) In conclusion, not every one is a singer in the choir, usher, Deacon, Elder, or Pastor of a Church. And to martyrs, I think you will agree that God gave "more grace' as they endured the flames...singing! I hope that has been helpful Tractsman P.S. As usual, please forgive ...spelling errors, if any!





 2010/7/22 11:38
StevenL
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 40


 Re: Bible Contradictions

A contradiction is not necessarily the same thing as a PARADOX. I think the scriptures are, by God's planning, paradoxical. <<< is that a word? :)

We are most definitely seeing into a DIM reflection of the Truth... even dimmer than when Paul,the apostle, last looked, since the mirror is now smeared with 2000 years of church history. We are ALL, whether we want to admit it or not, quite a bit confused. Those who don't think they are have just settled on their favorite "version" of the truth of any given matter and declared it TRUE for themselves whether it is or isn't in reality.

None of us will be damned for being perplexed by the paradoxes of the bible. God is pretty smart. He knew that we would have a hard time with words that defy reason. Either that or we're all goners. I've got hundreds of "contradictions" I could run by you that I've personally struggled with and still do. But I shall refrain.


_________________
Steve Lindsey

 2010/7/24 12:21Profile
fromtheold
Member



Joined: 2006/10/25
Posts: 161
South Africa

 Re: Bible Contradictions

Well Jesus said "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat"

You cant take everything in through a narrow gate, that is why Jesus also said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

The needle's eye is the old gates they had in the cities in that time that looked like a needle's eye. In those days the people coming into the city had to sometimes leave their stuff outside and could only take in stuff that could fit through the eye of the needle (door) so the people inside could make sure they are not hiding anything in their luggage, like bandits and stuff.


_________________
esvl

 2010/7/28 14:48Profile









 Re: Bible Contradictions

"any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."

"Can anyone explain how that fits because if one just looks at it, it's an obvious contradiction."...Codek

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Salvation is a gift indeed, given freely in the sense that man cannot earn it,and thereby the one with superior works or a stonger personality who performed more aptly, would deserve it. No one deserves , nor can earn Salvation. In this sense it is free.

Salvation in the terms of the Giver, though, was not at all free. It was the most expensive gift ever given; the torture and slaughter of the most holy man, Jesus, who is God Himself. He said; " I lay down my life; I pick it up again."

The crucifiction of the sinless One was His gift, in order for whosever will come, to live forever.

In the same sense, it is a gift to the Receiver; all mankind and persons in particular, like you in me. It is free in the sense that I cannot earn it, buy it with money, nor perform for it. I must receive it by Faith; believing that Jesus is the one who paid for my death. He saved me yes; but with the cost of great suffering , and His death.

But there is a price to pay. "He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved." "Many shall fall away." We must view Salvation in this sense to understand this contradiction. We are being saved, we are being conformed, IF we continue steadfast under His Lordship and discipline.

Hebrews makes it very, very clear that if we do not, we are bastards, and not sons. We can fall away; there is a great apostasy occuring, even now.

Also the Parable about the COST, the Pearl of great Price. The cost; EVERYTHING. "For God so love the World..." He gave, or, He paid the life and torture of His only Son, to gain us. God crucified God. That's a high price, certainly not free for Him.

The recipient too, must obey, and endure, out of love for the goodness of God. This involves sorrow, and suffering, and a dying to myself, giving all that I am, as He did, for Him....renouncing all that he has....all the future, all the loves and desires of this life, to gain His life.

This is at the very heart of the Gospel. Jesus endured the pain and rejection of His Cross, and in our lives, we must too, in order to become like Him; to love as He does. It is a gift, but there is a cost; a big one.

 2010/7/28 17:15
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

The needle's eye is the old gates they had in the cities in that time that looked like a needle's eye. In those days the people coming into the city had to sometimes leave their stuff outside and could only take in stuff that could fit through the eye of the needle (door) so the people inside could make sure they are not hiding anything in their luggage, like bandits and stuff



Not to be nit picky, but this commentary which has been floating around for years now is simply not true. Some people still teach it, but, when Jesus talked about a camel not being able to fit through an eye of a needle, he was talking literally about a needle, not the entrance to a city. A good scholarly commentary shows this to be the case.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2010/7/28 18:37Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
The needle's eye is the old gates they had in the cities in that time that looked like a needle's eye. In those days the people coming into the city had to sometimes leave their stuff outside and could only take in stuff that could fit through the eye of the needle (door) so the people inside could make sure they are not hiding anything in their luggage, like bandits and stuff

Not to be nit picky, but this commentary which has been floating around for years now is simply not true. Some people still teach it, but, when Jesus talked about a camel not being able to fit through an eye of a needle, he was talking literally about a needle, not the entrance to a city. A good scholarly commentary shows this to be the case.



True, True. I know of a particular lady who has some connections with some government people in Israel and the tours she leads are not the typical tourist tour. She confronted a tour guide one time about this very issue. He said, "Well, OK, you are right. The Christians who come believe in the proverbial needle gate, and so the tour guides are taught to tell the story to satisfy them." The needle gate and the kneeling camels is just an Israeli tourist legend.


_________________
Travis

 2010/7/28 19:43Profile









 Re: Bible Contradictions

Quote:
I'm currently pondering how Salvation is free but to be Jesus disciple it will cost everything.



I have pondered the same question many times.

 2010/7/28 21:10
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

The purpose of paradox is to draw your attention. There are more than a few paradox's in scripture. As a matter of fact they are quite common. Some of these paradox's are written by the same writer one verse after another. It is a way in which we are forced to seriously consider.

Paradox's exist in nature, since God is the creator, and his word is both the method to dispense truth, as well as the method for creation, it would stand to reason that we would see both of these consistently true through natural law as well as through scriptural exigesis.

There is a passage of scripture I am meditating on right now and have been for weeks that is not just a paradox, by all logical standards it is a complete and total contradiction. I believe God has drawn my attention to it because there is a truth there that I cannot see.

But through meditation on the word...day in and day out, the Lord may give me a string to pull at and hopefully unravel the knot. This is for our good. It gets us thinking deeply and praying to the Holy Spirit whom is our teacher. (You need that no man teach you.)

Some of my 'personal' growth as a believer has been a ferocious dialogue between me and the Lord as I meditate and mull over some of the more difficult passages, and hardest sayings in the word.

These paradoxes are for your good.

As a matter of fact I think there is an Art Katz sermon on here where he said that a mark of maturity in a believer is when they have come to be at peace with the "tensions" in scripture. I thought it was a wise and astute observation.


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/7/29 0:44Profile
fromtheold
Member



Joined: 2006/10/25
Posts: 161
South Africa

 Re:

Ok so the whole gate thing was a legend?
Thats disappointing.

I really dont know then why Jesus would use the example of a needle then. Why not just say something else, why a needle?


_________________
esvl

 2010/7/29 3:37Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 A Story

The scripture cannot contradict itself as God is not the author of confusion. What we do not understand lets just say they are mysteries. Some mysteries have been revealed in part.....

A very simple analogue would be that Mr Sin owns the "deeds" on Mr Man. Mr Saviour comes along and frees Mr Man from the clutches of Mr Sin. Mr Man is now free from Mr Sin and could have not paid the debt for his own sins to Mr Sin. Mr Man is now free and his freedom is was given to him freely he just had to believe. Now that Mr Man is free Mr Savior asks Mr Man to join him and help spread the liberating message of belief to others under slavery to Mr Sin. Mr Savior says Mr Man has to love every other thing in his life a [little less](often translated hate from Greek to English) than his saviour. He says this to him because as he once stated in parable the cares of the world is one of the ways the word is choked out in a believers life. His new master is simply giving him a heads up as to the snares that could prevent Mr man from achieving success (fruitfulness). Mr Man complains as he doesnt yet fully understand "give up my house and car and wife" Mr Saviour tells him he would recieved a hundred fold what ever he hasd to give up in this life and the life the come. Mr man sees that he is freedom is free and he is reimbursed at 10000% return for any expense occured. At this point he understands just how loving his new master is. Mr Saviour anoints Mr Man with the same power he had so he is empowered in his new task. Mr Man realises there is no greater love than to lay down ones life for a friend. He now looks at his master as his saviour a friend in the time of need. He is so in love with his new master he thinks it nothing to die to the world in service of the one that redeemed him. The End

 2010/7/29 5:47Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy