| Poster | Thread | crsschk
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Santa Clara, CA
| | 1Jo 2:27 "no need that anyone should teach you" | | Thought I would clip this from a previous thread [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3388&forum=34#22554]Special Bulletin by Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and Jack Deere re: Paul Cain[/url] and move it here.
Our dear sister Chanin wrote:
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Can I just add that as to the question of who are the 3 most influential teachers/preachers who have influenced your life_ I say a big fat NONE.
[i][b]influenced[/b][/i], none?
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God alone has been my teacher and anyone else that has come along side and I have listened -it is just because they are confirming what the Lord has shown me Himself.
But didn't the Lord use some of them to place those confirmations in the first place?
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This is why the Lord is competent to teach His own people and should be our source. "Cursed is the man who trusts in man (and man's ways and teachings)"-"Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord". I don't mean to sound condescending and flipant, I am just agonized that people don't look to the Lord Himself more for their wisdom- man is infallible, man is not perfect. Let us get our wisdom and direction from the true Source. People should not follow any man- only Jesus.
[i]Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.[/i]
Isn't this talking about those who would led you [i]away[/i] from the Lord, away from trusting, away from relying on His strength? Besides, there is a tremendous difference between mere 'men-kind' and men in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, sent to teach and preach to us misfits.
I know what you ultimately are driving at as far as following anyone with some kind of reliance upon their teaching and so on. But there are great many preachers and teachers that have had an 'influence' on me and many others and even yourself, ones that you have posted here that have impacted many.
Where might I be without an A.W. Tozer dumping light into my eyes to show the awesome holiness of God? A Leonard Ravenhill to give me an old fashioned and sorely needed whipping for taking for granted all that the Lord has done for us. Paris Reidhead driving a tent peg through the eardrums for a needed cleaning of the ear wax of humanism?
Then there is the seeming simplicity of Chip Brodgen and Zac Poonen, brought to my attention by yourself dear sister not to mention a handful of others. In fact it is you yourself Chanin that has implanted the necessity of and the warning to seek Him alone, which is of course obvious, but we can get distracted and get caught up into all kinds of 'foolish genealogies' type's of things as well as even an over reliance on some of our favorite preachers, teachers, certainly that is understood.
I guess I just wanted to point out it's not an either or proposition and perhaps a suspicion that what is meant by this scripture can be misconstrued;
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, [b]and you have no need that anyone should teach you.[/b] But as his anointing teaches you about everything--and is true and is no lie, just as it has taught you--abide in him.
From Gill's commentary:
[b]and ye need not that any man teach you;[/b] not that they were perfect in knowledge, for no man is absolutely, only comparatively so, in this life; or that they needed not, and were above and exempt from the instructions of Christ's faithful servants; for John himself taught them, and to teach and instruct them was the end of his writing this epistle to them; but the sense is either that they needed not the teachings of these men before mentioned, the antichrists, liars, and seducers, being better taught, and having an unction by which they knew all things; or they needed not to be taught as if they were babes in Christ, as unskilful in the word of righteousness, but so as to increase in spiritual knowledge, and go on to perfection, and be established in the present truths, at least so as to be put in remembrance of them; or rather they needed not, nor were they to regard any mere human revelation and doctrine, for the whole Gospel was come by Jesus Christ, and no other is to be expected or received by men, nor any doctrine but what is according to the revelation of Christ; wherefore saints under the Gospel dispensation are taught of God by his Spirit, according to the word of truth, and by the ministry of it, and have no need of learning every man from his neighbour, or from his brother, any separate revelation; so that this passage does not militate against the external ministry of the Gospel, or human teachings according to that perfect rule and declaration of the whole mind and will of God by Christ under the Gospel dispensation:
Besides what would we do with all the other verses pertaining to spiritual gifts of teaching and 'the foolishness of preaching';
1Co 1:21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom knew not God, it was God's good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
I think you did point out and it hangs on this word [b]more[/b]; Quote:
I am just agonized that people don't look to the Lord Himself [b]more[/b] for their wisdom
And yet at the same time it was starting to sound as if it was all conclusive and that's all I wanted to point out. Another comes to mind;
Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
Act 8:31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Perhaps I misunderstood you sister and this was just an excuse to do some head cleaning, this has been lurking in the corridors for some time now. My apologies in advance.
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Mike Balog
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|  2004/10/21 8:07 | Profile | moreofHim
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| | Re: 1Jo 2:27 "no need that anyone should teach you" | | First I guess I shouldn't have added that to the Paul Cain thread, yet I felt an agony over those who choose to follow men instead of God and then end up in wondering what went wrong. Oh, well.
Yes, i suppose the word 'influence' is the kicker here. I have been influenced and had many confirmations by some wonderful teachers.
Oswald Chambers and Chip Brogden are the two main ones.
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But didn't the Lord use some of them to place those confirmations in the first place?
To this i would say yes, in the case of Oswald Chambers early on and also Chip Brogden. In Chip's writings I see so much of other writers such as Tozer, Nee, etc... that when I read these other authors now, I see some of the most important points have already been made by Chip in previous articles.
For the most part though when I am led to read something and I come to accept it as truth, I am usually saying "So I'm not the only one who thinks this, I'm not crazy." I can't really expalin it, the way the Lord teaches me. His Holy Spirit imparts wisdom and truth and it's deep inside. You know you have these thoughts, ideas and truths, yet you may not have heard anyone say them outloud or read them in written word before-- but when you finally do see them written out or spoken, I say "Oh, there we go, I had no words for it, but I knew that truth." That's how I know what to read and what to stay away from.
Sorry, did not mean to make an argument out of this. When I read books or listen to people's teachings, I also see what's wrong as well as what's right (discernment can be a bother sometimes)and so choose to take out the good and throw away the bad. No man is perfect and I cannot trust that he will be. I have never met a "man" who I agree with on all points. But Jesus, on the other hand- I know I can agree with Him on all points, I know He knows it all and He alone is truth. We all know "in part"- so each of us only have some of it, not all of it. That's why I pick and choose here and there. If the holy Spirit confirms that to me as truth- then ok. If I not, then I disregard it.
I don't know how I got all into this. It's is just my personal way of learning from God I guess. Didn't mean for it to be a big thing--
I just want to encourage people to trust God for their wisdom and knowledge and make men their second choice. To trust that He can really do what He says He can do -and be to us, what He says He can be to us- Our teacher, our All.
Many times I might start a reading frenzy because I am not trusting that the Lord can give me the answers that i need, and I am discontent, craving mere knowledge that I really don't need at the time. Many times I have yet to carry out and act upon the wisdom that the Lord has already allowed me to have. I don't want to run ahead of God. (Again just more Chanin thoughts, making little sense except to me) I better stop now, I may get too wordy and messy :-)
Sorry if I sounded like "there is no need for any teachers". I am just very leary of giving credit to man. :-o Hanging onto the hem of His robe and following Him around is enough for me. I might get off on some rabbit trail if I don't. :-)
In Him, Chanin
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Chanin
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| | 2004/10/21 10:07 | Profile | sermonindex
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Posts: 39795
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Online! | | Re: | | Quote:
Sorry if I sounded like "there is no need for any teachers". I am just very leary of giving credit to man. Hanging onto the hem of His robe and following Him around is enough for me. I might get off on some rabbit trail if I don't
Chanin in these days of much false teaching I don't blame you at all. Sometimes I am very careful about these things also. But in the books of these old dead guys I find so much wisdom and insight and it can also be dangerous to allow those to be the voice of God to us instead of God himself. I will repeat something I have said in a few other thread:
L.E. Maxwell said to his students at bible college repeatedly: "The Hardest thing in the Christian life is to have..." and then he got all the students to say together "BALANCE!". Isnt it so true?
Thanks for your comments a blessing as usual chanin! I am so glad God has you on these forums to balance out alot of things, what would we do without you :-P
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2004/10/21 10:12 | Profile | mloaks
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Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 129
So. MD, USA
| | Re: | | This reply illustrates the spiritual differences between men and women, IMHO.
I have trouble submitting my trust to the men and women in authority over me in the church.
I just try to remember that 'Wherever two or more are gathered...'. |
| | 2004/10/21 10:14 | Profile | philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: 1Jo 2:27 "no need that anyone should teach you" | | Quote:
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything--and is true and is no lie, just as it has taught you--abide in him.
I am thoroughly confused following this thread so I don't know who I am replying to! If you consulted the old KJV occasionally you might find an interesting point here...But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1Jo 2:27 KJV)
The pronoun used here is 'ye/you' which is plural. This is not a statement about an individual having no need of teaching, but that the group have no need of outside teaching, but that the anointing abideth within you. The "even as it hath taught 'you'" is a link with the past and with Paul's comment And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. (2Ti 2:2 KJV) Here, again, there is a reference to the corporate nature of the church and the mutual protection against error that being part of that community affords.
The same feature is seen again in another quotation of Paul's For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1Co 2:16 KJV) Again, Paul is not saying "I have the mind of Christ" but "we have the mind of Christ". As the old wisdom has it Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
(Pro 11:14 KJV)
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2004/10/21 10:23 | Profile | crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Since coming here now a little over a year ago one of the aspects that I have come to appreciate is words and their meanings, the use of and noticeable mis-use of in our day and age. Of course that presents a couple of problems, one being that I went through High School with an emphasis on 'High'. The other is ...what was I talking about?
Still learning to stitch them together and let's just say you wouldn't want me knitting you an afghan.
Inflection is difficult to 'see' and often times can re-read these things and think, 'yeah, that's what I meant, but why did it come out like that?!' So with that short prelude...
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For the most part though when I am led to read something and I come to accept it as truth, I am usually saying "So I'm not the only one who thinks this, I'm not crazy." I can't really explain it, the way the Lord teaches me. His Holy Spirit imparts wisdom and truth and it's deep inside. You know you have these thoughts, ideas and truths, yet you may not have heard anyone say them outloud or read them in written word before-- but when you finally do see them written out or spoken, I say "Oh, there we go, I had no words for it, but I knew that truth." That's how I know what to read and what to stay away from.
Haha...Oh this is so good Chanin! For the longest time and even now there is that sense of "No, that's not it, no, nope, nah..." Then all of a sudden "!" "Yes! That's it. That's truth!"
For myself it was that reaction upon reading A.W. Tozer for the first time as I was swimming out of so much....bleech. This makes the prior comments make much more sense. How else could I put it? I may not know what 'it' is, but sure seem to have a pretty good grasp on what it's not, it just doesn't ring true.
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Sorry, did not mean to make an argument out of this.
Not at all, me neither, think I jumped a stitch there, that inflection thing...
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don't know how I got all into this. It's is just my personal way of learning from God I guess. Didn't mean for it to be a big thing--
You didn't, that's my fault. What I think happens a lot of the time is a collision of competing thoughts (in my head, scary I know) some get pulled off the 'to study later' shelf, some are lurking around still from previous voices and...more like a pile up than a collision. Sorry the wreck ended up on your doorstep, it's not a big thing. Quote:
I just want to encourage people to trust God for their wisdom and knowledge and make men their second choice. To trust that He can really do what He says He can do -and be to us, what He says He can be to us- Our teacher, our All.
And to add to Greg's comments you wouldn't believe how effective you have been in doing just that. You may not always come to mind by name but you have helped plant that firmly into my spirit. Sure we know this, but we often choose to ignore that small still voice when He wants us to follow Him in a different direction.
What makes this all such a great adventure is the unpredictable nature of God and His leadings. In the past couple of weeks have gone from a period of mixed frustrations, my thinking was all skewered (not unusual, but more than normal) and on a 'whim' started listening to Ravi Zacharias and it took me completely out of the funk I was in, kind of a shock treatment, a complete paradigm switch. It didn't pertain at all to whatever was going on at the time, but that was the beauty of it..a different perspective. In the midst of that was something I had long strived and 95% failed at and that was to just be quiet before the Lord...totally. I have to say that it really wasn't anything I did. It just started and what I found was it turned into something else that I don't think I ever fully grasped before.
Worship. The days lately have been just full of worship and a line echoing from Leonard Ravenhill keeps coming back, where he said that 'worship was more important than prayer' and for the longest time I couldn't get my head around that. Of course the 'irony' is an excellent series from John MacArthur just started up today on...of course, worship. The past week has found me listing exclusively to my audio bible, going through the Old Testament and my, the things the Lord is teaching me, the types and shadows above and beyond the more usual that get notice, the seriousness and even humor! (Who was it that stuck the 'fat man', so fat that he left his sword, handle and all inside of him? O.K. so it's a little twisted humor..)
But what am I driving at? There is no formula, no 'ten steps', we are all moving at various stages and His ways are not our ways, nor are they all corporately executed.
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(Again just more Chanin thoughts, making little sense except to me) I better stop now, I may get too wordy and messy
Oh you would be surprised, they make plenty of sense, these on the other hand, well if you can salvage anything out of the wreckage...
I need to take a writing course.
Chanin your a saint.
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Mike Balog
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| | 2004/10/22 1:36 | Profile | moreofHim
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Posts: 1632
| | Re: this forum | | Mike,
I think the coolest thing about this forum is how the ones who truly are looking to change and grow into Christ-likeness are truly doing that here. We all help to balance one another out and because we want to remain teachable and humble, we are quick to apologize and put others before ourselves. I really think that the fruit shows. :-)
I am no saint, but I have to admit that the Lord has taught me so much here about not taking offense, humbling myself enough to apologize (even if I am not wrong but just offensive), showing me that it's ok to admit that i am not always right. To give up our right to be right, to give up our rights in general. That's what the Lord has taught me through SI more than anything else. How to have forbearance. :-)
Anyway, you make perfect sense to me. We all have certain gifts and areas that the Lord uses us for certain purposes and when we fit them all together it is a nice package. I am a piece of the church puzzle, as are you. It would all be off center if everyone was like me and focused just on what I thought was important at the time. We can't have one without the other, huh?
It makes me smile, actually, to think about how the Lord made His body this way. SI is such a perfect example of the body trying to be what it's supposed to be. Yes, it's a miracle because we aren't together in flesh, but we certainly are in spirit. I hope it makes the devil plenty mad that he can't stop the Lord's body from becoming what they should just because of distance restrictions! :-P
In His love, Chanin
p.s. got a reminder of this this morning: What is prophecy? the testimony of Jesus!
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Chanin
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| | 2004/10/22 7:53 | Profile | crsschk
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| | Re: | | Rev 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the [b]saints[/b], who keep the commandments of God and hold on to the faithfulness of Jesus.
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It makes me smile, actually, to think about how the Lord made His body this way. SI is such a perfect example of the body trying to be what it's supposed to be. Yes, it's a miracle because we aren't together in flesh, but we certainly are in spirit. I hope it makes the devil plenty mad that he can't stop the Lord's body from becoming what they should just because of distance restrictions!
Couldn't agree more you saint! :-P
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Mike Balog
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| | 2004/10/22 10:00 | Profile |
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