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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Dangers of Christian Feminism

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Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re:

"Yet most women I speak to are after the American dream but not the biblical aspect of denying yourself. There is nothing wrong with the American Dream as long as it does not become an American idolatry!"

I just want to comment on this quote. A few days back someone suggested a book called "Radical" by David Platt, which I immediately purchased and am really being convicted by. This book takes a biblical re-look at "The American Dream". In my opinion this is a must read for every Christian, and especially Americans.

Now the the topic at hand. The enemy is always pressing his tactics and confusion forward. We should not be surprised. It is just sad that the label christian is attached to it.

I am a woman that has been walking with the Lord for 34 years. I just celebrated my 39 anniversary with my husband who badly needs Jesus. All this time I have studied the word and taken it to heart. My translation is, let the more mature women teach the younger women, so after 34 years I consider myself a little mature. However I have much more to learn, as we all do.

Women's position in God's order is not inferior, just different. Anything with two heads is a monster. God holds our husbands responsible to be the spiritual head of our households, and holds us responsible to submit to his authority. It is like Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, Evangelist, teacher. They are differing offices but equally as important, they just don't do the same functions. Submission is a joy when you really understand it because it pleases God. That doesn't mean we have to be brain dead, it just means the final decision is in the husbands hands, that way there is no confict. This brings peace to the household and family. It is a wonderful safe place to be. If I can do this, without compromising my convictions, with a backslidden husband, what can you do with a saved one? What we have to guard against is hacking him up if the decision he makes doesn't always turn out well. God is in control of that too and will bless the outcome sooner or later because of our obedience. All things work together for good to them that love God are are the called according to His purpose.


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KLC

 2010/6/6 0:00Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1862
Kansas

 Re:

I was interested in buying the book radical I haven't gotten around to it, when I married my wife she was all about the American dream, buying a house, have a picket fence with a dog and two kids with the ideal job and everyone is happy and driving the nicest of everything and owns the nicest of everything. Then she meet me frugal, nerdy broke white kid that drove a beat up Ford Festiva that was quite content with the simplest of things and had very little interest in the nicest of things as long as it worked it was good. I am glad that I didn't really ever have a desire to fulfill the American Dream and this has actually rubbed off on my wife :)


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/6/6 0:15Profile









 Re: The Dangers of Christian Feminism

Brethren

I cannot but object to the idea that any subject is out of bounds where the prevailing ideology on this, a Christian discussion group is supposed to be one of seeking truth. Those who wish it to be so need to examine their motivations. A `pricking of ones conscience` and an uncomfortable reaction, should be the catalyst for an honest person to pursue the matter more deeply.

It is a common tactic to avoid addressing a subject by pouring scorn on the extremes who always join the bandwagon and in the the womens freedom movement there have been some who are frankly men haters and have a personal axe to grind, and who are invariably non Christians, and to discount the work which was done in the late 19th and early 20th century in order to give women equal political rights. Before that time women had no rights at all and were entirely dependent on men and suffered great injustices. It is not that long since women could not vote, nor could they inherit, it all went to the sons. I am not sure by the reactions here whether it is thought that these advances were not necessary or a good thing.

The root of the poison goes right back to the fall, and the propensity of men to want to rule over women and blame her for all the evils the man wishes not to take responsibility for. Of course not all men are tarred with this brush, but it is a very strong male characteristic. Of course once men enter the kingdom of God these faults of the flesh should not continue, in the same way that the faults of the flesh which women are prone to should not continue. And the OP is correct that one of them is that a few women are looking for a meal ticket to provide them with the things they feel they are entitled to - the American Dream.

I agree that the war of the sexes should not continue in the church, but it does. Note the increasing rate of divorce. Something is not right and if we do nothing and let things continue, saying peace where there is no peace, then what of the future?

We as Christians need to heal these wounds among ourselves, and we are in a crisis I believe where the extreme backlash from the previous reforms have have further damaged male female relationships and where men have a problem in knowing their role in society. In order for it to be healed however, it needs to be exposed. The air must get to it.

I am not a feminist, in the sense that I do not support moves that seek to make women equal to men in their role in the family. In God`s plan the woman is to look with respect to her husband in his leadership role in the marriage. I am sure that the majority of Christian women would willingly submit to this kind of leadership when it is done with self sacrificing love on the part of man, however, there is an element of misogynism which remains and it is so pervasive that it is not easily seen. It is seen though when one sex is pointed to as causing a specific problem without understanding the long history behind it, and I am thinking of that video which many of you did not seem to watch, which was pointing the finger at women for enticing men to sinful thoughts with their scanty clothing without acknowledging the role men play in this and that many women see themselves as valuable only in their sexual attractiveness.

Things can only change where both sides are brought to task and the bigger picture seen, and I see this one sided view just too often and it is of course not unusual when the status quo is in danger and the balance of power shaken, and let us please admit this, that the male has had the power in relationships and in society unchallenged right up to recent times. Any who plead that it is not happening still in the church are being entirely unrealistic and this attitude will stop any beneficial change that needs to take place to save our marriages. The problem though needs to be dealt with from the top down.

It looks like it will shake an already shaking situation but it will in fact help rather than harm.

But what of society? Should we be concerned? Were Christians concerned over slave labour? If we demonstrate to the world what God`s order for marriage is in our homes, surely this will be the strongest evangelistic tool we possess. But more than this, our Christian brothers can do a lot to change the climate by speaking against misogynism when they see it.

So I am asking Christian brothers for their help as the OP of one of the hot threads previously asked of the sisters in not wearing scanty clothing.

We need to talk and talk on this one not run away from it or deny it, in the bond of peace and fellowship. I am not inciting hatred to the brothers, I like men and admire the special abilities that God has given them. I do not have an axe to grind but I have been placed in a position where I have seen the discrimination that still goes on when an abused born again Christian woman goes to her evangelical church for support and finds that the pastor and elders close a blind eye to it and then later finds that among the women in the church, even pastors wives are being abused - it is a major undiscussed problem. And it all comes down to ideas that men are to be served by women and to obey them no matter what when Paul is speaking to godly men and women and the rules can only apply to them.

So deltadom, to whom I am replying, rather than look to women and say that they are destroying their family lives by following a profession, perhaps you may ask why women do not feel secure in the provision of their husbands or in any future security with their husbands instead of just assuming that they are greedy.

There will be no progress when things are continued to be looked at in a one sided manner.

peace
Brenda

 2010/6/6 5:23
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Since Adam and Eve sinned there has been tension between the sexes. And it won't go away.

We cannot fix out there but we can work on it in our own private lives.

I do see where the older sisters have failed in promoting motherhood. We have been sold the American dream, like Matthew detailed his wife was into before she met him.

Years ago girls were taught homemaking. They were taught how to keep an orderly house; how to plant a garden and preserve its increase for winter; clothing construction; they were taught how to make bedding for the family; were taught how to beautify the home with the skills of her hands.

As women moved into the workplace, displacing males at some points, some of these skills were deemed as too time consuming. She could work a few hours and pay for whatever took hours to make at home. As a result these skills became history and are no longer taught in the home. Now all the wife can do is work out to make money to buy ready-made.

A serious loss has occurred with this mindset: the mom no longer is working with her children, teaching them skills in work, working together for the good of the family. Severe independence has resulted in with each individual seeks to look out for his own good rather then the good of the family as a whole. Today we call this mindset SELFISHNESS.

Since the mother is working away from the home, the family size has grown smaller. The economies of Europe are currently failing because of this very thing. You need a growing population of young people to sustain a civilization. The young are needed to help the old people. And there are fewer and fewer to do so.

When you have a couple who has only two children - at the most- the burden of caring for ageing parents becomes overwhelming. If the family is larger this burden can be shared among more, making it less bothersome for any one person. Of course, I also realize that the dynamics of too many families prevent this from happening because of favoritism shown to the children in their growing up years and now you have conflicts....in any case, the underlying case for children to care for their ageing parents remains the same.

I see now where we have not promoted motherhood, homemaking like we should have. We should teach our girls the delight in making things with our own hands, beautifying the home; teaching skills that make homemaking a delight and a pleasure, producing a high sense of satisfaction.

The modern prevailing thought looks with disdain at a woman who opts to remain at home....

The American dream is such that the woman is expected to work away from home. Then she comes home and is all tuckered out. The laundry still needs to be done as does the cooking, the cleaning. The woman dose not have the physical, emotional stamina to do it all. She is wore out. How can she give quality time that is imbued with patience toward her children? Can't be done. The children grow up angry for having been deprived of motherly care.

Today many children are raised in daycare centers. It has been shown that these children grow up to be bullies. This mindset was nourished because of the lack of restraint imposed by an observant mother. Conflicts between siblings occur naturally, but they need to learn to give and take. This is what moms are to do - referee these fights.

Ok, this is my piece...Deltdom knows I have a lot more to say...I focused on one of the practical aspects of womanhood...

And brothers, your wife needs your encouragement to battle against modern feminism. She needs your love, your assistance, your praise. If you praise her, this will motivate her to keep working at it whatever she is doing. Help her when she is weary - she gets tired, often - especially during certain times of the month. If she burns the food, do not criticize her, just throw away and start anew. If a dish turns out less tasty then you or her wished, be a good sport and eat it with pleasure and assure her you still love her and her attempts. Failure is part of life, one learns [likely] more from these lessons then any harsh criticisms.

Love her, brothers, and encourage her. She will reward you handsomely.

Blessings,
ginnyrose




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Sandra Miller

 2010/6/6 9:26Profile





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