"I'm convinced that if we fail to come and find [our place] before the Lord both individually and corporately, our accomplishments are carnal and worldly however spiritual they appear. Not because our intentions were evil per se, but because they lack both the reality and authenticity of Christ's glory. For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ."There is something in this very similar to what stood out to me in reading John 5:41-44 the other day. Almost immediately another passage had come to mind, from Isaiah 49:1-9.The Lord Jesus in this passage from John says that He does not recieve honour from men. In this, He does not mean that man cannot or should not honour Him, God is and can be honoured by men(1Sa 2:30), but here, this means chiefly, that the Lord Jesus did not take honour from men into His bosom, He did not treasure it in His heart, and keep it as a means of VALIDATING His ministy.The Lord Jesus speaks here in this passage from John, but He also is speaking(I believe) in the paassage from Isaiah:"Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God."Yet surely His judgment is from God. God is THE ONLY measure of sucess and obedience is the Christian's gold standard.As it comes back to ministry, the Lord Jesus makes a staggering statement in saying to them, how can they believe, which recieve honour, ONE FROM ANOTHER, and do not seek the honour that comes from God alone.It may be at times that all of us have a mixture of motives in our service to God. I certainly have, and that is to my shame, not good.But when this sort of thing is on the level of what Brothertom is talking about, the consequences are staggering."...a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ""Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee."
_________________Christopher Joel Dandrow
I am somewhat concerned with the feedback on this post. If a brother repents, showing evidence of repentance by amending his ways, should we not receive him? If this brother has been in error doctrinally in the past, and he repents before God and his people, is he not doing right? It seems that many of you are heaping upon him unrighteous slander based upon what he has written or said in the past. Is this not an attempt on the part of Mr. Warren to correct some error? Is this a cause for believers to scoff or rejoice? Mr. Warren's words will be proved true or false by how he begins to lead his church in the days ahead. Brothers and sisters, give space for this man to repent, and calm your critical spirits. "Love hopes all things".
While I would be the first to readily accept a man's sincere repentance and rejoice over it, based just on what I've read from the current report alone, and even the fact that he has a "new and improved plan for the decade" would throw serious doubt on that actually being the case. That being said however, my discernment has been off in the past, and I'm willing (and hoping) this to be the case for this as well. Any man can turn over a new leaf for Christ, but the fruits shall speak for themselves in due time. I'm hopeful, though honestly not optimistic.
It would seem that this is a good thing, however after studying many revivals, the only thing that works is intercession and example. The pastor must lead the way. He must be impassioned in every area of his life. He must lay between the porch and altar himself and the sheep will follow. No amount of rebuke will make up for this. He would be better off taking those with the same vision into the closet and crying out until the spirit of repentence comes on those present, then it will spread like the fire of God always does. Telling people to leave will fix nothing. Example, like William Seymore, Duncan Campbell and others will.
I only wish more pastors had the courageto say if you don't want to be a committed,whole-hearted Christian; please leave this church!! AMEN! AMEN AGAIN!!
_________________Martin G. Smith
For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ.
Amen I agree Ron, I have preached against this attitude at my church before. Giving a very breif summary of Pragmatist in the modern church searching for results numbers and church growth, rather than searching for Christ Jesus.
I agree with Chris Rosebrough.http://www.extremetheology.com/purpose_driven_critique/ i believe a safety recall is in order for all Purpose Driven products. ..and believe me, I'd be very thankful if Rick Warren renounced all his products and apologized to all those that driven out of their churches because of the purpose driven movement. There is much healing that needs to take place.