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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Rick Warren Tells Passive, Fake Christians to Find Another Church

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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


"I'm convinced that if we fail to come and find [our place] before the Lord both individually and corporately, our accomplishments are carnal and worldly however spiritual they appear. Not because our intentions were evil per se, but because they lack both the reality and authenticity of Christ's glory.

For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ."

There is something in this very similar to what stood out to me in reading John 5:41-44 the other day. Almost immediately another passage had come to mind, from Isaiah 49:1-9.

The Lord Jesus in this passage from John says that He does not recieve honour from men. In this, He does not mean that man cannot or should not honour Him, God is and can be honoured by men(1Sa 2:30), but here, this means chiefly, that the Lord Jesus did not take honour from men into His bosom, He did not treasure it in His heart, and keep it as a means of VALIDATING His ministy.

The Lord Jesus speaks here in this passage from John, but He also is speaking(I believe) in the paassage from Isaiah:

"Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God."

Yet surely His judgment is from God. God is THE ONLY measure of sucess and obedience is the Christian's gold standard.

As it comes back to ministry, the Lord Jesus makes a staggering statement in saying to them, how can they believe, which recieve honour, ONE FROM ANOTHER, and do not seek the honour that comes from God alone.

It may be at times that all of us have a mixture of motives in our service to God. I certainly have, and that is to my shame, not good.

But when this sort of thing is on the level of what Brothertom is talking about, the consequences are staggering.

"...a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ"

"Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee."

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2010/5/28 9:44Profile

Joined: 2003/10/2
Posts: 16

 Re: Rick Warren Tells Passive, Fake Christians to Find Another Church

I am somewhat concerned with the feedback on this post. If a brother repents, showing evidence of repentance by amending his ways, should we not receive him? If this brother has been in error doctrinally in the past, and he repents before God and his people, is he not doing right? It seems that many of you are heaping upon him unrighteous slander based upon what he has written or said in the past. Is this not an attempt on the part of Mr. Warren to correct some error? Is this a cause for believers to scoff or rejoice? Mr. Warren's words will be proved true or false by how he begins to lead his church in the days ahead. Brothers and sisters, give space for this man to repent, and calm your critical spirits. "Love hopes all things".

Derek Melton

 2010/5/28 10:43Profile

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


While I would be the first to readily accept a man's sincere repentance and rejoice over it, based just on what I've read from the current report alone, and even the fact that he has a "new and improved plan for the decade" would throw serious doubt on that actually being the case. That being said however, my discernment has been off in the past, and I'm willing (and hoping) this to be the case for this as well. Any man can turn over a new leaf for Christ, but the fruits shall speak for themselves in due time. I'm hopeful, though honestly not optimistic.

 2010/5/28 10:51Profile

Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178

 Re: Rick Warren Tells Passive, Fake Christians to Find Another Church

It would seem that this is a good thing, however after studying many revivals, the only thing that works is intercession and example. The pastor must lead the way. He must be impassioned in every area of his life. He must lay between the porch and altar himself and the sheep will follow. No amount of rebuke will make up for this. He would be better off taking those with the same vision into the closet and crying out until the spirit of repentence comes on those present, then it will spread like the fire of God always does. Telling people to leave will fix nothing. Example, like William Seymore, Duncan Campbell and others will.


 2010/5/28 11:46Profile

Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: What's Wrong in this??

I only wish more pastors had the courage
to say if you don't want to be a committed,
whole-hearted Christian; please leave this
church!! AMEN! AMEN AGAIN!!

Martin G. Smith

 2010/5/28 18:37Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA


For many in ministry, a sense of accomplishment is preferred over identification with Christ.

Excellent post winthrup,the quote above really struck me as profound in our day.

It is this ambition and pride that is such a hinderance to the power of God being manifest in the church today. May the Lord deliver us from needing the acceptance of men, the lust for success, and reputation. Let my name be forgotten, Christ's name exalted.

I am reminded of something A.W. Tozer wrote in the introduction to His book The Pursuit of Man. What he says about his book can be equally said of any ministry, oh how we need more signposts...

"The worst thing a book can do for a Christian is to leave him with the impression that he has received from it anything really good; the best it can do is to point the way to the Good he is seeking. The function of a good book is to stand like a signpost directing the reader toward the Truth and the Life. That book serves best which early makes itself unnecessary, just as a signpost serves best after it is forgotten, after the traveler has arrived safely at his desired haven. The work of a good book is to incite the reader to moral action, to turn his eves toward God and urge him forward. Beyond that it cannot go."

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2010/5/28 23:28Profile

Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


Amen I agree Ron, I have preached against this attitude at my church before. Giving a very breif summary of Pragmatist in the modern church searching for results numbers and church growth, rather than searching for Christ Jesus.

Matthew Guldner

 2010/5/29 1:08Profile

Joined: 2004/3/1
Posts: 103


I agree with Chris Rosebrough.

i believe a safety recall is in order for all Purpose Driven products. ..and believe me, I'd be very thankful if Rick Warren renounced all his products and apologized to all those that driven out of their churches because of the purpose driven movement.

There is much healing that needs to take place.

 2010/6/6 9:56Profile

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