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 Re:

Snuf... you eat at Waffle House a LOT, don't you.

You say something, and then you are called on it you do a 180 and start waffling.

What you have put out here in the 24 hours is a mixture of Preterism and unadulterated Replacement Theology, just as Neil pointed out. And when you get called on it you start scrambling.

Ever think of running for office? lol

By the way, anyone who has been here for any length of time knows where I stand on tongues... and what you said was incorrect about it. Not that it matters.

Krispy

 2010/5/25 15:50









 Re:

Quote:
..but as a Jew who has apprehended Messiah, loves Jesus, reads that kind of anti-Israel bile and venom that spews from your keyboard,



Hi Natan, There is no bile (except whats in my liver) or venom being spewed from my keyboard. Nothing could be further from the truth. I do apologize if it seems like that. But I have no hate towards natural Israel.

Quote:
don't think for a second..I don't know where you are coming from.



Believe me brother, I have no idea what your talking about.

Quote:
Israel is NOT in bible prophecy, only the Church is. All those prophecies concerning Israel are over. She rejected her Messiah, there will never be a return. The current state of Israel so called is the greatest deception of the 20th century upon the Church"



I should have been much clearer, my apologies.

Israel is not in any current bible prophecies, only the Church is which is made up of FIRST the Jew, then the Gentiles. There is no separate agenda for the Jews and one for the gentiles. They are now one in Christ.

This is a covenant that was made to Abraham, which by the way was a gentile, there was no such a people called the Jews at this time because Judah had not yet been born.

The covenant to which Jesus came to confirm with many for one week was the covenant that was made to Abraham the gentile and his descendants the Jews. Christ came to His own people, spent three and half years ministering the gospel to them. He healed a couple of gentiles who exhibited more faith than His own countrymen. At this time, the gentiles were not yet brought in, this was still a Jewish only message. Believe it or not, but God hadn't spoken to the Jews for a space of 400 years. His last prophet was Malachi. When Jesus came on the scene, it was "darkness and obscurity". There was very little light. And John the baptist was a light for a time for the people. But because there was no light in the city, they all came out in the wilderness searching for some divine direction. Jesus called his own people a wicked and adulterous generation, omen seekers who were only looking to have their bellies fed instead of the one who gave them miracles and truth. This was the condition of the Jewish world. Israel was out of the picture because of her breeding with Assyria.

The Gospel was to the Jewish nation to which God returned once more to save. This time the conditions were simple, receive Christ and live, or reject Christ and die. There was a reason why God stopped talking to His people for 400 years.

Can you imagine not hearing a word from God or the Urim and the Thummin, nothing? Then God returned to Israel once again. The Temple had newly been built, the Spirit of Elijah entered into John to turn the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers, but with all his ministering, he failed. The only thing that was worth it all was baptizing Jesus and then his time had come to diminish.

A ministers dread is preaching a sermon and no one responds to the call. That was John's life. Many came, listened and many left the same way they came.

This was their time but missed it. Jesus foretold many things in His parables about what they would do to Him. Not gentiles, His own. Then He said that those that would kill the Kings Son would be tossed out and given to other vine dressers that would tend His vineyards and bring in the fruit thereof.

The gospel message was a Jewish message for the Jewish people. This was their time. Many received Him on the day of Pentecost and on ward. The one hundred and forty thousand came in, a mere drop in the bucket, but that was the prophecy to which was given.

Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

On the day of Pentecost, a remnant returned out of all nations.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

If you can receive it, this is your remnant, "such as should be saved".

 2010/5/25 16:04









 Re:

I do like waffles and scrambled eggs too. (hehehe)


Quote:
By the way, anyone who has been here for any length of time knows where I stand on tongues... and what you said was incorrect about it. Not that it matters.



It does matter! Every iota of the word of God matters and how you or I believe it is important, that is how we can fellowship properly. If I am a Christian coming into your small home-group gathering, you would want to know what I believed. If I said to you that I believed in replacement theology (which I don't), but everything else was cool, you would take me aside and say,

"Brother, I don't mind you fellow shipping with us, your more than welcome, but I would ask that you please refrain from speaking this here". To which I would gladly do.

As for scrambling, I thought I could make a discreet exit but I couldn't, I was grabbed from behind and dragged back in, I had to respond. So I am answering.

 2010/5/25 16:20









 Re: Krisp

he aint talking to me, i know that.(later addition, snuf did talk to me)

now, you being ex-Marine, and knowing how modern AirLand manuvuer warfare works, how is it, though vastly outnumbered 30 to 1 and up, do you think , just by dint of armaments or force strength, Israel has survived in that neighborhood WITHOUT the Favor of God?

he wont come clean on what he said.

you see now, Steve, why i sometimes, as a Jew, i get suspicious about some in the Church?....underneath they hate Jews, or on a political basis, they regard Israel as counterfeit. either way, it would be hypocritical of me to say, "brother, brother", to such as that.

The LUTHERAN CHURCH gave spiritual covering to the nazi's as they killed Jews in Germany, so did the roman institution, and i know Art Katz has said things against the modern state of Israel, but if the dear man were alive i'd tell him, he's wrong. Nothing against Art, but before he began to walk with God in Messiah Jesus, he was a commie atheist secular ethnic Jew.......myself, though i've been a horrendous sinner, like Abraham, i always believed God, always feared God.

this guy wont talk to me though...its probably better, Baruch HaShem.

 2010/5/25 16:20









 Re: snuf

i've heard this all before, from some Gentile followers of Messiah about Israel, the modern state of Israel being counterfeit, a "deception" and "not of God", and such rhetoric is wrong and wrong-headed. you can cherry pick Scripture all you want, but you are way off the mark.



"If you can receive it, this is your remnant".....

oh, thank you so much for that share, let me now hear what God has to say.

 2010/5/25 16:32









 Re:


""I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD. "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness. So then, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when people will no longer say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,' but they will say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.' Then they will live in their own land."" (Jeremiah 23:3-8)

 2010/5/25 16:45









 Re:

You wont hear that from me. I think Israel is a miracle today, and I believe that God will do all that He said He would do, and fulfill all that He said He would fulfill.

Is Israel in a right relationship with God yet? Obviously no... but it will be... soon.

I love Israel. And I love the Jews. ...and I love my brutha... Neil!

Amen Rev! Hard to get around that passage!

Krispy

 2010/5/25 16:51









 Re:

Snuf... when I said it doesnt matter I simply meant it doesnt matter to me whether you know or do not know where I stand on tongues.

Krispy

 2010/5/25 16:52









 Re:

Quote:
I've heard this all before, from some Gentile followers of Messiah about Israel, the modern state of Israel being counterfeit, a "deception" and "not of God", and such rhetoric is wrong and wrong-headed. you can cherry pick Scripture all you want, but you are way off the mark.



Really? I never heard it from nobody.

Natan, you need to stop being so passionate about your race.

The flesh profits nothing but the Spirit profits life and peace. I told you from scripture, it's up to you to believe it, and just like your Jewish ancestors, you continue to harden your heart to even what Jesus said in the gospels. If I am cherry picking scriptures, than Jesus had one big cherry harvester.

The current state of Israel is real. The counterfeit is believing that God has a separate agenda for the Church and His so called "chosen" people. The more you separate the Jews from the Church, the more you make void the cross.

The gospel message is to the Jew first than to the Gentile. That first showing doesn't negate the fact that WE are all in Christ Jesus our Lord as ONE body. I am amazed that you can't see that.

The Church is Jesus Christ, it's not Roman Catholic.

If you fail to see that both Jew and Gentiles are in Jesus Christ you have a different theology that is not found in the New Testament.

Further, if you take out the Jews from Jesus to work some separate redemption for them, than the gentiles would have to be dragged along with them because they are one with them. You can't separate Jesus Christ He is married to the Jew and Gentile and in His eyes, He sees no distinction.


Quote:
oh, thank you so much for that share, let me now hear what God has to say.



God said that Elijah had come through John the baptist. Today, few believe that, they think that that prophecy is still future. But look at how Jesus says it.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This proves to me that many don't have ears because they say with their own mouth that that prophesy is still future. Which raises many other questions, one of them being what else aren't people hearing?

 2010/5/25 17:02









 Re:

"but as a Jew who has apprehended Messiah, loves Jesus, reads that kind of anti-Israel bile and venom that spews from your keyboard"

That's over the top brother. Bile and venom and spewing? I must have missed that, can someone show me where there was vile and venom and spewing? ..........brother Frank

 2010/5/25 17:07





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