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Interesting to note that one of the signs of the last days is what "snufalapagus" just wrote.

2 Peter 3:3-4 states: "knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”

This prophecy has just been fulfilled today before everyone right here on this forum thread.


As a fellow bible student who, like you, study the entire bible not just one or two to base one's teaching, am fully aware of this verse of scripture. And to declare that this is being fulfilled today on this forum seems a bit low brother, seeing that it's an accusation of untruth.

Again, for the sake of peace amongst the brethren concerning this subject, I remain.

 2010/5/24 22:58


Snuf is being unusually cryptic:) Frank

 2010/5/24 23:31

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


For the sake of peace among the brethren, Jesus is coming soon and Israel is God's chosen people.

This is a tad bit confusing to me. If this is not your belief then why would you say it for the sake of peace? Is supporting false doctrine for the sake of peace Biblical? If like you said things will only change when someone will stand up and confront this faulty way of thinking, then where does your integrity stand saying that you'll agree with error for the sake of peace?

Now, if you said it in a satirical fashion, then how does that bring any sort of peace?

That being said, if you actually believe what I've quoted then so be it. However, if done in jest or sarcasm there's probably a few things to consider.

One, if Israel is not God's chosen people still, everyone on this site who claims Christ should be positively terrified. Since you're a student of the entire Bible, and not just a verse or two I need hardly remind you of God's covenants. But for those on here who may not be "students of the whole Bible" I might point out that God has never made a covenant with the church. Never. If we're talking about the new covenant that we all claim to live in, that covenant was made with Israel, not the church. If God is finished with Israel, than he is also finished with the church. Does the Bible say that we gentiles are wild olive branches grafted into the cultivated tree of Israel, or that with Christ's coming the Lord decided to get rid of that tree and grow a new one? When the Jeremiah spoke about God's election of nations at the potter's wheel, did the Lord throw out the old clay, or refashion it? And most importantly, if God is allowed to break everlasting covenants, how should we then think that we in any way are secure? Is the Lord a covenant breaking God? If He is, this should throw doubt on the character that He presents of Himself in His Word. Then His truthfulness and honor come into doubt. And from there the spiral would continue. None of us could be sure of anything, including our salvation.

Now, based on God's character, could the world in it's current pattern and progress just continue on and on? Despite what anyone "chooses" to believe, Christianity is in decline. There are more mosques being built than churches. Just study society for the last hundred years. Do more men turn to God now, or to their own devices? If left to progress like that forever, soon Christians will cease to be, and what will prevent the Lord from pouring His full wrath on a wicked people, and utterly destroying them? God doesn't let sin just go completely unchecked, and run rampant on the earth. Is the grace of God really that cheap?If the end of the world as we know it will never come, then what of the promise of a new earth? And if that's bad interpretation from "some other guy" and we're actually on the new earth, then based on what I've seen, we got a pretty raw deal.

To go fully into this, it would probably take pages, and I have to run off to get back to school. I'm quite willing to believe that in some way I've misunderstood you, and if that's the case, I'm quite sorry. -Grant

 2010/5/25 5:58Profile


There are two doctrines at work here... Preterism, which I have already described. And "Replacement Theology", which believes that the Church has replaced Israel as God's chosen people.

Both of these doctrines can be easily refuted by reading the Bible in a literal fashion (which it was meant to be in the first place).

Snuf can say what he wants, but he has propogated both of these here in this thread. It's there for everyone to read. There can be no peace where there is no unity... and on these two doctrines I am happy to say I am not in unity with Snuf. Doesn't mean I don't love him, I do. But I will not concede the truth for the sake of peace and unity.

Rather I will contend for the faith, as we are all called to do.

...and it will be done in love.


 2010/5/25 9:11

Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


I'm with you 100% on this one Krispy.

 2010/5/25 9:18Profile


Now, if you said it in a satirical fashion, then how does that bring any sort of peace?

It wasn't said in a satirical fashion, it was said because no one wants to hear any angles only that which has been taught, NOT from the bible, but what has been taught, or what has been handed down as truth. Just because some old saintly man that has been revered by everyone says it's so, doesn't mean it's so.

As I stated before there is no signing of any peace treaty in the bible, it's an added piece of information that has caused bible students in the 18th century to veer off in to unknown and unclear and very silent scriptures which really frustrates me because it's so plain and yet misunderstood by so many. The carnal understanding of man plays a huge part in the many theories that are floating around out that there, and not one theory is solid because everyone keeps changing their view or it's always being updated or modified.

For the sake of peace is to agree with everyone regardless if it's wrong or not. I would like to stand up and say many things, but this is not my forum and I don't think Greg would like me doing that and he would probably look at me as a trouble maker and one who has an agenda. And I don't want to come off as having one.

I would like to stay on the site and be a nominal believer not an extreme nut case.

I apologize for bringing this up, my bad.

 2010/5/25 13:38


Snuf is propogating Preterism and Replacement Theology... both of which are false teachings.

I need not argue this with Snuf. Fact is fact.

Mark and avoid.

Romans 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."


 2010/5/25 13:57


With every bible doctrine you have to start at the beginning, you never start at the end. And when ever this discussion is started everyone jumps to the end and the whole thing is messy before it gets started. There are a thousand questions but when starts at the beginning the answers are displayed as one begins to study.

Krispy, you have said some words that are simply not true. I do not believe in Replacement Theology. The church has never replaced Israel. That would be a foolish notion on my part seeing that the very first Christians were Jews on the day of Pentecost where thousands were brought into the kingdom of God, "such as should be saved".

As for the "Faith that once delivered unto the saints", we are contending for the "Faith" which is salvation by grace, not law. There were great divisions in those days (still are) concerning if man should continue on with obeying the law while still holding unto Jesus. And to this "faith" we must contend for.

Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's wrong, your heart could be hardened, mine could be too. Your hardened towards the speaking in tongues, I say your wrong, but that is your opinion.

Everyone, please, I am just talking here, there is no animosity going on or resentment.

 2010/5/25 13:59

 Re: to the poster "snuf"

you say you do not believe in "replacement theology"?

then what did you mean when you wrote this in another thread:

" Israel is NOT in bible prophecy, only the Church is. All those prophecies concerning Israel are over. She rejected her Messiah, there will never be a return. The current state of Israel so called is the greatest deception of the 20th century upon the Church"--snufalapagus

you wrote that.

i know you implore in this thread, "Everyone, please, I am just talking here, there is no animosity going on or resentment.".....but as a Jew who has apprehended Messiah, loves Jesus, reads that kind of anti-Israel bile and venom that spews from your keyboard, the same kind of rhetoric i hear from islamic jihadi's or white neo nazi's to this very day, dont think for a second..i dont know where you are coming from.

 2010/5/25 14:55


Mark and avoid

Because of a different take on bible prophecy?

I would "Mark and Avoid" anyone who didn't preach Salvation by Grace through Faith.

But to "Mark and Avoid" someone who has a different outlook on how they view bible prophecy seems a bit lame.

The foundation is Jesus Christ and Him crucified along with the Apostles. The foundation is not made up of how you believe the stars falling out of their place or the sun turning black or the moon stops giving her light, whether you believe that or not, makes no never mind to the foundation. The foundation is by faith through grace, not of works lest any man should boast. If any man builds on that, wood hay or stubble, it will be tested by fire to see what kind of work it is. If it's true it will remain, if it's not, Poof! , but thank God he will be saved because his foundation is on that solid Rock Christ Jesus.

I am not switching the subjects, but your accusation brings you into the forefront with your own misguided beliefs, because you say that the speaking in tongues is not the manifestation for those that receive the Holy Ghost, your not in sync with the Acts of the Apostles to which they witnessed from all those that received the Holy Spirit, they either spoke in tongues and/or prophesied.

Your belief would be troublesome to many seekers who are seeking this infilling. You would discourage them, and that would be hurtful and I would be compelled to warn them to "Mark and Avoid".

Before Paul would administer that rejection, he would go through a series of longsuffering and patience. Having God's Spirit causes us to endure with people for a long time before we bring out the ax.

Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.


Proverbs 16:20 He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the LORD, happy is he.

 2010/5/25 15:21

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