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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the differnce in the work of the Spirit in amd conversion and His work in subsequent baptism

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jerryaustin1
Member



Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 What is the differnce in the work of the Spirit in amd conversion and His work in subsequent baptism

I dont want a debate whether it is subsequent or not. I firmly believe it is. I would like someone of the same persuasion to answer my question.


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Jerry Austin

 2010/5/7 16:47Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: What is the differnce in the work of the Spirit in amd conversion and His work in

Jerry, let me try to take a stab at it and others can fill in the gaps as well.

In John 3, Jesus tells Nicodemus about the role of the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of God) in conversion. He clears up Nicodemus' confusion by telling him "that which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit." When we are born again, our spirit is regenerated or "born a second time" of the Holy Spirit, of the Spirit of God.

In Romans 8: 8-11 Paul draws a strong distinction between salvation (regeneration) and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit that is referred to as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. He says that the Spirit of Christ in you causes you to be alive spiritually, born again. Then he draws the distinction by saying, "But, if the Spirit of Him who raised Christ from the dead be in you..."

The term baptism is a strong term. The best analogy of it I have ever heard is the pickling process. The cucumbers are not just dipped in the vinegar, but are infused with the vinegar. It saturates them and indwells them. So it is with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is an infusion, and indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God in us.

It is as Paul said in Romans 8. This indwelling presence quickens or makes alive even our mortal bodies. Salvation is about the spirit of man. But the baptism of the Holy Spirit goes even beyond that. I can say that the baptism of the Holy Spirit gave me a power to live a holy life that I never had before receiving the Holy Spirit. He gave me a power over my flesh that I never had before. This is what I think Paul is referring to given the context of walking in the spirit and overcoming the flesh that chapter 8 is about.

Hope that helps


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Travis

 2010/5/7 21:31Profile
jerryaustin1
Member



Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 THANKS

Thank you very much! That is a amazing illustration!


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Jerry Austin

 2010/5/8 3:06Profile









 Re: THANKS

In conversion you are baptised (immersed, pickled) into Jesus Christ.

In the subsequent 'immersion' Jesus baptizes you in the Holy Spirit(...and with fire).

(This next part may be a red herring to some, however God says my people shall know my name, yet holy is an adjective, and spirit is an impersonal noun. Holy Spirit is a title and not a name.)

The Holy Spirit, from a scriptural standpoint:
-disregarding the foolishness of pagan hellenistic greek logic

-[from which early roman catholic theologians came, re-inventing scripture towards their persuasion: heaven-vs-prgatory and indulgences to mediate a way, changing God ordained holy days to conform to ecumenical religious persuasions and align with pagan holidays,God's shabbat becoming sunday and so on and on and...establishing the doctrine of the trinity]--->[I Cor. 3:18,19,20]

-and we shall stick to only the wisdom of God-->[I Cor. 1:19,20,21;2:9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16]
- we find the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the annointed One, Jesus Christ,[II Cor. 3:17,18] (who is in our Heavenly Father, seated in His throne: His own uplifted right hand).

They are united as one, and of the self same spirit. This is why we find Jesus, when on earth saying in so many different ways things such as "I can do only as I see my Father do", "I do what my Father tells me", "My Father and I are one", "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father", "I AM...", "the Holy spirit, He shall..." and so on.

Look at John 14:15-16:15, first reading Jn. 16:15 as the premise of the context for this section of scripture. Consider this verse in reference to any questions you may have regarding the Holy Spirit.

Jesus says that this spirit will speak of Him, and Jesus says that He speaks and is our example of our Heavenly Father.

By these things we can come to the realization that the Holy Spirit is the person/spirit of Christ Jesus and the Father united as one.

Again, we know that man is created in the image of God. The scripture states that God formed man out of the red dry dust of the ground, breathed into him the "breath of lives" and man became a living soul. Now, recall Jesus breathing on His talmudim and saying, "recieve ye the Holy Spirit."

I Thess 5:23 speaks of man as three seperate components united as one, and that word "preserved" there is the greek word for salvation.

The complete work of our salvation then, is our fine tuning (perfection-->Mt. 5:48) towards becoming as Jesus Christ is.

This occurs only through our beholding the Glory of Jesus Christ--->(his life,death, burial and ressurection, and taking part in all that comes through identifying in all of this ourselves.)

The finished work of Jesus Christ is the ONLY means by which we experience the work and operation of His Holy Spirit in the perfecting of our salvation.

First recieving the salvation He offers, we become part of Christ's body. Becoming clothed (baptised)in His spirit, we recieve and become one in His spirit. His body life works from the inside out and the life of His spirit works from outside in. This inward and outward manifestation of His presence in our life is what the 'pickling process' is all about. and thusly, in full swing. God is working from the inside out and from the outside in, to the conversion of our souls... if we do indeed walk in the spirit-->(deny ourselves, take up our cross, bury the flesh mortified, and walk in the new(ness of)life available then through the power of His ressurection.


g
Acts 20:32

edited towards better clarity

 2010/5/8 7:56
1335
Member



Joined: 2010/4/23
Posts: 4


 Re:

ewww

It looks like daddy is beginning to meddle against religiousity again.

He says so much that there will be no revival without reformation and God works in spite of our misconceptions and not because of them.


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Alexia

 2010/5/8 12:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:
By these things we can come to the realization that the Holy Spirit is the person/spirit of Christ Jesus and the Father united as one.



Finally someone gets this Godhead biblically correct.

 2010/5/8 14:22





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