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linda7
Member



Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England

 Re:

Hi Lina, Jesus came with a message for the unbelievers, he did not simply stand on the pavement and recite sins to unbelievers. The religious men he was angry with and rebuked them for their hypocrisy. Timothy was sent to instruct the church.

Again, Jesus did not simply stand and recite sins to passers-by.


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Linda

 2010/5/7 15:23Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2006
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: You are a sinner, or God loves you?

I have seen the extremes. The Mennonite man shaking his Bible at all passer-bys at a town festival to the ones proclaiming that you are OK with God no matter what you do.

Paul in the first part of Romans said that even the Gentiles who have not he law still retain an intuitive knowledge of right an wrong, of the existence of a standard outside of ourselves, of God if you please, and by that intuitive standard accuse or excuse one another. This said of a culture who had not heard of Christ at all. Most in the western world have heard of Christ and though they may not have a Jew's knowledge of the law, yet have enough of a knowledge of the existence of God and His standards to know that they are in sin. (Although, I see us becoming more and more like those Paul was speaking about with no knowledge of the law at all, especially among the youth.)

Keeping this in mind, the law was sent that every mouth might be stopped and all might become guilty. The law is very useful in demonstrating to one who does not know or does not want to admit that they are in sin due to deception. The law offers a totally objective standard, albeit an incomplete one, to which man is compared, judged, and found guilty. That is its purpose.

But simply knowing that I am in sin does nothing to free me from that sin. Hebrews 10 makes that point very clear. The law, the shadow of God's true standard, the damning evidence presented at our trial if you will can never set me free from the guiltiness of condemnation that came by comparing myself with the law.

So "preaching about sin" has its place, but cannot produce righteousness. The jab of law must be followed by the punch of God's love and grace. If the law concludes all under sin, what is to be done about it? If I am guilty and I know it, how then am I to be set free from that guilt? Enter preaching the unconditional grace of God and His love for each and every one of us, even while we are yet sinners. That is the gospel.

The knowledge that I was in sin and headed to hell was the truth, but was not the preaching of the gospel. The gospel, the good news, is that through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, through the atonement provided through the offering of His blood on the altar (See Hebrews 10) I can be delivered, saved from the wrath of God by being born again.

I think that it is important to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us as to where in this stream we need to enter. I know a homosexual young man who knows full well he is in sin. I watched him grow up in the fellowship my wife and I used to attend. He is heavily into self deception and is living a lifestyle he knows is wrong while trying intellectually and through man's philosophy to prove to himself that it is really OK. He has proclaimed himself an athiest. To stand in front of him and declare that he is in sin would be of no use. He would simply write me off and cease to listen to me. He knows. He does not want to hear. We continue to pray for him. The only conversations that will do any good are those orchestrated and led by the Holy Spirit. Should that not be the way we approach every opportunity to share the gospel?

Use the law for its intended purpose. At all times preach the gospel, the good news of the grace and mercy of the Lord. Do so always under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.


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Travis

 2010/5/7 18:32Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Street Preacher Arrested



I've tried to read all of these but I know I don't believe I've seen anyone discuss the article itself. I need to say that I am usually the first one to get in line speaking AGAINST preachers picking out one sin and harping on it worse than an old woman. But that doesn't seem to be the case with the street preacher this article is about.

The guy was railroaded! Based on the article, he wasn't even preaching against "homosexuality" and 'a' woman asked him about his faith, she didn't complain, it was the policeman (who was gay), that went to the woman, walked over to him and told him who he was and God bless the street preacher who responded anyway, "It's still a sin." It looks like the policeman trumphed up charges against the street preacher.

Has anybody read the article?

God bless,


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Lisa

 2010/5/7 19:29Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3421
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: telling people their sins



Jimotheus wrote:
Yes, sinners generally know what is right and wrong because of the inward witness of the conscience. However, it is clear from the holy scriptures that that isn't enough. The righteousness of God through the law of God (the outward witness) needs to be pressed upon the sinner's conscience in order for him to see that he/she is not only a sinner, but a great sinner indeed!!
--------------------------------------------

This is what the watered down churches have to do today. But Jesus didn't, Paul didn't, he just walked into town and the woman possessed by the spirit of divination KNEW and followed Paul and told everyone!!

Also, there was a man (don't remember his name), who got on an elevator years and years ago and the man riding with him admitted to being lost and that he could feel the presence of the Lord and him and asked about getting saved. (That's according to my mind that forgets at times! I KNOW the stories better and different.).

And the man and woman that I was taught under were leaving a church that they had never been to in a town they had never been to late at night and a drunk woman was stumbling past them and she raised up and said, "I know you, you're Sister Mary," and stumbled on. This was in the 1950's.

Among these christians (above), no one had to be told of their sins or even explain sin, the people who came in contact with them, their sins were revealed by the power of the Holy Spirit (in the other person!!!)!! God is so good!

I believe the "outward witness" you mentioned is the presence of the Holy Ghost operating 24/7 in a Christian's life and sadly, it's not in my life and it has become less and less in the church at large; so the little "c" church has to resort to these tactics to get results.

I realize this is just one side of a huge theological debate, Jesus did said "repent." and that we all need to do, a lifestyle of repentance!


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Lisa

 2010/5/7 19:35Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

Jackie Pullinger speaks of an instance where she is preaching and a man she knew for years came up to the alter and accepted Christ Jesus as Lord and Saviour. She later asked him what happened and why he decided to come forward this time, the man was honest and said I started listening to you for about 5 minutes and thought I had enough of that so I fell asleep and God visited me in my dream saying Isn't it about time you came back to me? So the man woke up and went to the alters.

I have come the a few conclusions that Salvation, every bit of it, is GOD. Ultimately God doesn't even need us to save anyone He is quite capable. We as Christians have three responsiblities when it comes to the Lost Intercession, being an example, and being a Witness. Apart from that WE can't awaken a heart to their sinful nature IT HAS TO BE GOD!

A young preacher who was under Charles Spurgeon would do alter calls everytime he preached saying we need to strike while the Iron is Hot, but Spurgeon believed that if GOD heated the iron it would stay hot after the meeting into the weeks to come.


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Matthew Guldner

 2010/5/7 19:47Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

Quote:
Has anybody read the article?



Thank You Lysa, I was going to ask this same question. So I ditto...


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/5/7 20:03Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2006
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Lysa, areadymind, Sorry guys. Entered into the side discussion and did not mention the main topic. I did read the article. It reminds me of a teacher I heard recently who was relating his experiences with being on television in the UK. He noted that there were certain things he is not allowed to say, and if he does, they will be bleeped out of his messages, such as saying homosexuality is a sin or saying that spanking of children is Biblical. If memory serves me correctly, he was talked to about having his show pulled from the air unless he complied. The UK is not nearly so free as it used to be, and the US is headed that direction very quickly.


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Travis

 2010/5/7 21:00Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

Travis, I think I remember reading a story similar to that a few months ago. And I was going to also mention that this man in the article was certainly not sitting there harping on the sin of homosexuality, so a lot of the rabbit trails in this thread certainly missed the point of the article completely. The issue at hand is not: 1) Persecution in the UK is as bad as Korea or India. 2) People should not preach without licensing as it does not appear to even have been part of the issue. 3) Mentioning specific sins is bad. 4) Should non-believers be confronted about their specific sins.

The point of the article is that a believer was brave enough to be out street preaching in LONDON ENGLAND no less. A place where, when I was there last, I was heavily intimidated by the apparent lack of Godliness wherever I went. He was asked if homosexuality was a sin, and was penalized for saying it was. The other point to consider is that we should not waste time and take for granted our free speech in England or in the U.S. As it appears this freedom may be on borrowed time. The other point worth considering is that the publicly acceptable tone in general media and personal discourse between the U.S. and Europe is an increased level of pointed vitriol toward the faith. The good, or the bad, of this is neither here nor there. Either way God can use it for His glory.

Rather than criticize someone for doing their best to Evangelize a backwards city, we should be praying for the brother and asking the Lord to use the situation for His glory. When a member of the body suffers, should we not suffer with him?


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/5/7 22:28Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2006
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The other point worth considering is that the publicly acceptable tone in general media and personal discourse between the U.S. and Europe is an increased level of pointed vitriol toward the faith. The good, or the bad, of this is neither here nor there. Either way God can use it for His glory.



This will only get worse as we live in the time when Christ's return is at hand. I told the guys in the Bible study the other evening, "Don't think that because you live in the US that you will necessarily escape physical persecution or even the possibility of giving your life for the gospel. Things can turn around so quickly." We are to be dead already with the giving of the physical life being just a formality.


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Travis

 2010/5/8 9:02Profile
Ceri
Member



Joined: 2008/10/17
Posts: 113
Notts. England.

 Re: Street Preacher Arrested

Just to update you - all charges in this Cumbrian case have been dropped!


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Ceri Elaine

 2010/5/16 12:07Profile





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