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hoohoou
Member



Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Street Preacher Arrested

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7668448/Christian-preacher-arrested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html]Link to article.[/url]

This is pretty telling of the state of the world. I'm afraid we need to get ready for this in the States as well.


_________________
Matt Smith

 2010/5/3 12:57Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1124
Germany NRW

 Re: Street Preacher Arrested

Thank God for faithful witnesses like our brother.

Yikes, this could have happened to me. I also called homosexuality a sin while we went out street preaching yesterday somewhere in London. I mentally prepare myself for arrest some time. Usually I name homosexuality in a range with other sins so that I do not single it out.

 2010/5/3 18:27Profile
Ceri
Member



Joined: 2008/10/17
Posts: 113
Notts. England.

 Re: street preaching

Please could I present another angle on this 'persecution' of Christians preaching in public.
Having worked with the Police in community safety, and my husband also works in public services, it is not so much what you are preaching, as where you are preaching, and have you gained the relevant permission.

In order to preach or hold any type of event in public you have to notify and obtain permission from local authorities first.

The problem though to authorities (police & local council) nowadays is that if they grant one group or person permission - they then have to treat everyone the same and grant permission to all - it would be a free-for-all, I'm sure us Christians would then be deeply upset about people with opposing views being granted permission to also state their case in the street.
This scenario would result in a nightmare for people such as my hubby who has to cover public order, keep the peace and maintain crowd control in public places.

Rather than allow a situation that could lead to chaos and enflame clashes between opposing religious or any other groups they would rather keep the public peace.

One occasion I was cringing with embarrasment when a (so called)Christian lady was arrested and brought in for violation of public peace. She was constantly shouting and screaming "you can't touch me, I'm a child of God!I'm covered by His blood, you can't touch me!!"
I must say she angered me so much and all I wanted to do was tell her off and shake some sense into her! The sarg on duty at the time was a lovely christian man who just looked at me and shrugged his shoulders, with a look that said it all! Her behaviour was not a good christian witness at all and she was viewed by all as being a crazy woman.

My hubby has had to stop people such as traders, buskers, charity collectors(for your own peace of mind as genuine charities will have been granted permission and been issued with a permit - so any other will be fake!)
even children doing penny for a guy'as this is illegal public begging and has led to distress calls to my husband due public being hassled for money.
Anyone operating in a public place has to have a permit to be there.

I find it a shame to hear of Christians being arrested for preaching in the street, as they would have been asked to stop more than once and been warned of an arrest if they persist.
This has nothing to do with persecution but is for the prevention of enciting public anger and for the person's own safety too. I know that the Police hate to arrest and will only do so if they really have to - due to the amount of paper work this entails which then takes them off duty for the rest of the shift! My hubby has been hours late home if he's been involved in an arrest just before his shift ends.
Thing is, if there is trouble who has to come and sort it out - if speakers are assaulted by an angry public who then has to deal with it.

I've heard some Christians say that we should not be involved in politics, government and local authorities, and then are the first to complain when they don't have a voice.
I thank God that we do have Christians in Parliament, local authorities and Police who make a stand for their beliefs and are being salt and light in their work place.

We are still allowed to hold Good Friday enactments complete with a Jesus being crucified - and public Easter morning celebrations. Churches are allowed baptisms in public places - my hubby even being baptised in the local swimming pool!
We can openly buy Bibles and worship together in our local fellowships instead of hiding in underground churches, we can download so many Christian articles and studies over the internet, we can run Christian holiday camps...

Compared to genuine persecution in other countries we still do have our freedom and a lot to thank God for!


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Ceri Elaine

 2010/5/5 11:05Profile
hoohoou
Member



Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
In order to preach or hold any type of event in public you have to notify and obtain permission from local authorities first.



I'd agree that we must follow any law pertaining to where and when it is permissible to speak in public. However, unless the article is purposefully misleading, this is not why this man was arrested. This man was arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin. Could be there is more to the story, but if this is the only reason he was arrested I think the Church in the UK better prepare themselves.

There is footage on youtube of a pastor being arrested at some sort of border patrol check point in Arizona that would be an example of what you are talking about. We are told to render unto Caesar what is Caesars until we are told or forced to do things contrary to the Word, also until we are prevented from doing Godly things, such as assembling peacefully for worship, or speaking out against sin.




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Matt Smith

 2010/5/5 12:03Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

hoohoou took the words out of my keyboard.


_________________
Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/5/5 12:14Profile









 Re: Street Preacher Arrested


Hi brethren,

I've thought a lot about this, as I've evangelised on the streets before now.

The Bible doesn't explicitly name homosexuality - it describes it. I believe this is an approach inspired by the Holy Spirit, because the pattern of behaviour, on a continuum, opens the person to the unclean spirits which are extremely binding. No-one is born 'homosexual', and even if they are hermaphrodite (a different discussion really), they tend to have normal sexual urges according to their chromosomal tendancy - as long as they are en-gendered (cultivated) in that direction also, by those who bring them up.

Again referring to the Bible, the main label under which homosexual behaviour falls, is idolatry. As such, it is very easy to quote both Old and New Testament scriptures (esp Lev 18 for a clear description following on from the initial verses of the chapter) eg 1 John 5:21, 'flee idolatry', 'flee fornication' (ie all kinds of sexual perversion), and verses about coveteousness, which Paul calls 'idolatry'. For anyone who has the opportunity to talk privately with a homosexual, there is plenty which applies to all of us, under the banner of idolatry and fornication, from which to refrain as a sign of the change in our hearts which faith in Jesus Christ has made.

I am very much in favour of telling people God can deliver them from every form of spiritual oppression. In Rom 1, it is clear from the Greek, that this is something which comes upon a person from the outside, initially, (the particular word for 'affection'), like any other temptation to any of us. I believe this is the core of the gospel to homosexuals, and we should not be afraid of offering to them a very positive HOPE IN CHRIST JESUS, for a life of natural fulfilment under God's order, giving pure pleasure to both they themselves, and God.

 2010/5/5 12:17









 Re:

There is absolutely no need to preach against particular sins, unless a word of knowledge is in operation upon an individual(s). Most if not all know they are sinning, the law is there. Some have a seared conscience but that is talking about another class of "once" enlightened people. But most immoral people know they are in sin. The answer for them is the gospel. The gospel is what Christ has done on the cross in paying for the redemption of mankind through the shed blood of Jesus.

To stand there with righteous indignation because personally we hate a particular sin or all sins is presenting a gospel through anger, however, even in this the gospel is being presented, but it's not the perfect way the Father would have it displayed.

We only need to name sin within the Church for those who think they are "getting away with it". Paul's letters were to the Churches not to the sinner. And to the religious groups to them they need condemnation so that they can be brought down low so they may learn humility.

Mercy to sinners, correction to saints.

 2010/5/5 13:54
Jimotheus
Member



Joined: 2005/7/8
Posts: 53


 Re:

snufalapagus:

I'm afraid you are incorrect when you say:

"There is absolutely no need to preach against particular sins, unless a word of knowledge is in operation upon an individual(s)."

I would be interested in seeing a couple of bible references to substantiate this assumption. Secondly, you say that:

"Most if not all know they are sinning. . ."

This is at best an incomplete statement. Yes, sinners generally know what is right and wrong because of the inward witness of the conscience. However, it is clear from the holy scriptures that that isn't enough. The righteousness of God through the law of God (the outward witness) needs to be pressed upon the sinner's conscience in order for him to see that he/she is not only a sinner, but a great sinner indeed!! That sin may appear to be exceeding sinful. Lost men and women need to know that their sins are not just the natural impulses, and inclinations of our humanity; Sin is the braking of the law of Almight God. It is rebellion and enmity against God. Oftentimes sinners will extenuate their sinful behavior, and sport themselves into thinking that sin "isn't all that bad; certainly not deserving of eternal damnation." This is why the works of the flesh in PARTICULAR are addressed in the holy scriptures, and you will not find a gospel preacher in holy writ that did not do so.

The conscience is but a partial witness. In order for the conscience too function at full capacity, the Law of God through the preaching of the gospel needs to prick and pierce the consciences of men. For further study, let me suggest Romans chapter one and Galatians chapter five.

You are correct when you said Paul's letters were to the Churches, but the letters though to the Churches wasn't only about the Churches. Both the state of the saved, and the lost are clearly addressed in the bible. You also mentioned:

"To stand there with righteous indignation because personally we hate a particular sin or all sins is presenting a gospel through anger, however, even in this the gospel is being presented, but it's not the perfect way the Father would have it displayed."

I think I know what you are saying here, and if I am right, I do agree to a certain extent. Love should be our motivation for proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ. First, love for God, and secondly, love for man. Incidently, there is also another motivation for proclaiming the gospel and that is, FEAR.
I want to also say that there is nothing wrong with RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION. The operative word being, "RIGHTEOUS." Is there anything you can think of that should anger God's people? Is God angery at anything, or anyone? There is cause for righteous indignation. One thing is for sure; the closer we live to God, we will find ourselves loving what God loves, and hating what God hates.

 2010/5/5 16:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The righteousness of God through the law of God (the outward witness) needs to be pressed upon the sinner's conscience in order for him to see that he/she is not only a sinner,



I completely agree with you. However, that is not our duty to press that upon the sinner, it's the work of the holy Ghost.

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

"The Lord working with them".

The message of the gospel is love, when the spirit of the word of truth is being preached the Lord is working in the hearts of men convicting the world of sin and convincing them that they need a remedy for their sin, Jesus Christ.

Paul before his conversion was being convicted by Jesus. There is no doubt in my mind that while he was dragging Christians from their homes and persecuting believers, some of them would have been ministering to him while he was doing this to them. Their words pierced his soul to which Jesus said, "It is hard for you to kick against the pricks".


Quote:
Is God angry at anything, or anyone?



Good Question.

God's ways are difficult to define.

Take this wonderful gospel for example. I can barely wrap my mind around it, our justification is by faith. It doesn't matter what I've done, I am justified because I put my trust in Jesus Christ. This goes totally against the law. The law says that I must die, but faith in Jesus says, I paid his debt.

Is God angry at anyone?

Blessed is the man in whom the Lord will not impute iniquity.

God is angry at the wicked everyday.

A wicked person is a Pharisee. They know the way, but bar anyone from getting in. A wicked person is not Saddam Hussian or Ben Laden. They are just sinners. For God to be angry at these men while their understanding is darkened and have no light would be out of character for God. But the Pharisee knows, and therefore will do everything in his power to make sure you and I don't see the light. The Catholic Church is a wicked organization because it knows the way, it knows what the bible says, but prefers to walk in darkness even though it think it's walking in the light. And they hold the masses in their sway. Her daughters take on some light, but are just as wicked as the Mother.

Yes, there are somethings that God is angry at.

 2010/5/5 21:26
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re: Street Preacher Arrested

In Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,

Im going to be blunt,
Stop fearing man, stop worrying if Man is going to give mouthpeices of God permission to speak or not. Gee, if Jesus had to get permission to speak from the sanhedrin I guess we wouldnt have christianity today would we. Christianity is offensive to people and it brings a sword. Not Peace, never has and will not bring peace, learn your bible.
Were not going to save souls by being politically correct, but spirit led, and it could get you arrested, and percuted.
In china its illegal to preach the gospel. So what. Christian ministers get arrested in china every day for doing it, does that make them law breakers.
There are alot of churches today that are so liberal that they promote homosexuality and it needs to be brought out in the open that it is a sin and God isnt going to wink at it. If that means being a rogue by opening your mouth and telling the truth and getting arrested, so be it.
But to be quite just so you can be law abiding and being sensitive to peoples feelings seems ludracis to me.
People who live in sin and continue in it will not escape judgment and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
So if God is leading someone to speak out about some sins who are we to monday morning quarterback what they say.
Truth is truth and if you dont like the delivery tuff boogers. thats why they killed Jesus to.
People better decide who's side their on and get on it.


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howard

 2010/5/6 2:46Profile





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