Amen Jesus-is-God. The Lord knows are hearts; but @ the same time, the mouth speaks what the heart is full of. You shall know them by their fruits.

_________________
Richie

JiG,

So I ask you,do you love:

John Calvin
Jonathan Edwards
John Bunyan
George Whitefield
George Muller
William Tyndale
John Wycliffe
Charles Spurgeon
Arthur Pink
John Piper
R.C. Sproul

These men and numerous others believed and taught the same doctrine of "no free-will",God's sovereign electing grace in predestination,as well as "no losing" salvation.

JIG, no qualms here over your position or statements. I argue from Piper's perspective throughout the discussion because of the OP and thread topic.

_________________
Paul

Brother Giggles, I know your heart is kind. I truly understand and felt free to express my heart to you because of that.
GOD Bless you!

Just read through this thread for the second time and someone said something similar to that, GOD is so mysterious in His ways that we can't understand Him, etc. etc..

I don't think so. I think He meant for us to know Him when He had the book of Job to be the first book chronologically and combined with Genesis - it all seems to wrap up His Nature and purpose for mankind rather clearly.
We see the choice that Adam and Eve made, in a perfect environment, where they were able to walk and talk with GOD in the Garden and we all know what happened and the rest of The Word showing clearly, what men decide to do despite GOD's Goodness. That 'circumstances' that surround every human being, as in those things that are environmental in nature, may be GOD's permissive will but not necessarily His Perfect Will - but He works all things together for good to those who Love Him or to appeal to them to love Him. In other words - HE does not ordain nor cause a person to sin. It is Never His Will, lest the millions of Words spoken in His Word from O.T. to New would be total hypocracy on HIS part, but environmental circumstances such as to whom we are born to, I don't believe is an accident at all. That's one environmental thing.
He can cause our freewill choices to work together for the good because in His omniscience, His foreknowledge of Joseph's brother's reaction to the dreams GOD gave Joseph worked together for the Good. As in what was mentioned earlier in this thread - "You meant it for bad but GOD meant it for good."
GOD's Omniscient Foreknowledge (Oh, if we could only understand or grasp that with these tiny brains of ours, but praying to), knows how to work ALL THINGS together for the good of those whom He foreknew would come to Him and even as a witness to those who will have no excuse for not coming to Him and I believe they'll see everywhere that HE was there through-out their lives, when they stand before Him on that Day.



But the point of the 1st book, looking specifically at Job (the first book that sets the stage for mankind about what goes on in Heaven and earth) - we see the main thing as the main thing.

Somehow - before Abraham, Moses and all - Job knew how to live a righteous life and then GOD's enemy satan came before GOD to test GOD's ways with man.


He accused GOD of putting a hedge around Job and claimed or accused GOD that that was why Job was faithful to HIM.


So there's this cosmic challenge, so to speak, between Satan and GOD - Satan trying to accuse GOD that those who Love GOD only do so because GOD MAKES them do so.


I love the book of Job. So grateful for it. GOD is Very Awesome!!!