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 Re: 2 emerging churches.


A great and thoughtful post; Areadymind! I want to compare Sodom, as you inferred, with our struggle; the struggle to maintain the purity of the church by resisting the onslaught of the para-church; the counterfeit one; THE EMERGENT CHURCH...the spirit of Babylon, or her daughter Sodom.

It is just not the obvious conflict of a sodomite young woman who claims to be of Faith, but a larger issue, and I think to identify it, I would call it EXTREME GRACE. This is the clarion call of the NEW CHURCH. We are all God's children. God is Love, and he accepts me as I AM!...and to Hades with you if you try and tell me different!

There never can be a revival of holiness without a preceding repentance from dead works, and as you noted, especially the concealed works of darkness....greed, pride, and it's accompanying mercilessness.

It seems to be a most aggressive spirit; militaristic and martial. It got it's start from the doctrines of once saved always saved, easy believism..[ "Come as you are...God loves you.[ without repentance from any dead works or sin..]

.. and PERMISSIVENESS..for God is Love no matter what..and love will pull you into His light in time....." to the foul portal of Ecumenicism [ all religions lead to God] and Universalism; { everyone is saved in the end, even Satan after purification in the lake of fire...].


This is what is encroaching upon us. It is a wave like no other generation has yet seen, and it is still immature. It is expanding and growing, and I see the holy church forced to react; pushed into a separate column.


"In the spirit of Art Katz I would say that the issue of a failed evangelicalism, is the issue of the remnant...and unless we as a people can apprehend intercessory repentance...we may just become complicit partakers of the wickedness of the daughter of Sodom! In that, we may be participant to the predecessor of abomination, as stated in the above verse from Ezekiel."
Areadymind
................... {Ezekiel 16:49]


I think your right. This repentance must be, by nature, individualistic, one soul at a time. It cannot be but an act of a return to more religious performance, preaching and activity, but a return to the first love that is crying out in us all. This is why, as I see it, the clergy/laity model is being dismantled by the lord.

Unto What? I see a chorus of voices, like yours readymind, who are gathering clarity and resolve to deal with the issues. The Holy emerging church is rising too, right along with the counterfeit emerging church. For those who stand in a repentant heart, unrelenting, will be used as a catalyst to provoke holiness and repentance to many. This is how it begins, I think. A voice crying out in the wilderness...[ there are many here..]

Then, as the Holy Spirit speaks to the churches, THE SAME MESSAGE! , we will be driven to repent of the sins not to be repented of outwardly. Pride, greed, and myself as king of my world....whatever I so desire...


This is Jennifer's issue. She wants her own life, and it seems she would rather die, than not to justify it.

"Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

11.He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

I think a lot of people are hearing this exact word.

 2010/4/27 8:19









 Re:

Anyone see the the Larry King interviews.

I would understand if she is struggling with this sin but she doesn't even want to try. She likes it and that's that.

That Pastor got snubbed on the interview. But anyone see the problem here. Although he is preaching to her out of love, she does not take it as love. And anything he said, just made her more defensive.

How do we confront sin without making people offended?

 2010/4/30 6:38
hoohoou
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Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
How do we confront sin without making people offended?



You don't. The Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing. Their offense is our clue we are on the right track. I don't think it matters how kind and gentle you are, although we should be kind, gentle and firm, if someone has a light shined on their sin they will be offended.


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Matt Smith

 2010/4/30 7:24Profile
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Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
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 Re: Days of Lot

What wonderful wisdom is flowing from the Holy Spirit in this thread. Areadymind and Brothertom spot on.

I just want to add that in the past I had the opportunity to witness to a bi-sexual man that claimed he was a christian. After much debate about the scriptures, I finally felt led to say to him, I am asking you to ask God if what you are doing is OK with Him. Pray that if what your are doing is sin that He will deliver you from it. He then told me he couldn't pray that prayer. You see he didn't want to part with his sin, he just wanted to add "God" as a bandaide to his sin. After that we parted ways because he had made his choice.


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KLC

 2010/4/30 9:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Days of Lot is correct but how should we respond. That is the question.

As you would any sinner who is need of Christ.

Not all drunks, addicts, sex mongers, want Christ, as miserable as they are they want to stay where they are at. Not all homosexuals want to live in their lifestyle. On rare occasions though, God has visited some homosexuals who loved their sin and revealed Himself to them and then forsook that lifestyle. But generally speaking, there are many homosexuals that don't want to be homosexual, therefore, we must show compassion. They already feel rejected, they already feel unloved, they already feel they are an outcast, they already feel there is something wrong, why add more condemnation on top of condemnation in which main stream Christianity seems to offer these people.

Goldminer said:
Quote:
You see he didn't want to part with his sin, he just wanted to add "God" as a bandaide to his sin. After that we parted ways because he had made his choice.



His choice is clouded over with the feeling that "it feels right". I often hear from homosexuals, "How can something that feels right be wrong". He may very well have started out in the Way with this sin dragging behind but it caught up to him and he is lost in the deception.

The prodigal son went out WANTING to get away from the old man so he can do his own thing. He loved where he was at living it up until the party train left him broke. It wasn't until he was in the worst place for a Jewish man to be (amongst the abominable filth of this world) that he came to his senses.

God loves this man even though he loves his sin. How many of us love a particular thing in our lives that we are unwilling to give up. Oh, it's not a sexual sin, but still it's a sin. I am not trying to justify this man's actions, no not at all. What I am trying to say is, just because we love a thing, doesn't mean that God stops working in our lives.

"while we were living in sin, living it up, loving our actions, Christ died for us."

I am rethinking my old religious mind set on how God loves people. Just because someone says they chose this or that, doesn't mean that God cannot step across the line that I am unwilling to cross and reach that person who loves their sin.

Paul had a zeal to capture christians, dragging them out of their homes, doing his part for what he believed was God. Even though Jesus was pricking his heart, he kept pressing forward into his persecution. His choice was to keep on going in his sin until Jesus arrested his attention. He was a student of the law, an upholder of what he perceived as truth even though that truth was a lie.

Sin is Sin!!

 2010/4/30 9:18
hoohoou
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Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
This sermon [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=10843&commentView=itemComments]A Time to Cry[/url] by David Legge, was the sermon that really hooked me into this website. I had randomly subscribed to the classics podcast because I found it on itunes looking for Tozer sermons. If you have not listened to it yet I could not recommend it more. I weep when I listen to this. And have heard it probably ten times now. David Legge is mourning over the fact that the sheep of God are smoking in God's anger because of the fact that the wicked have taken over the house of God. He gives a gut-wrenching, heart-felt exposition from Psalm 74 that speaks to this whole discussion very well. Take time to give it a listen...



A quote from the this sermon, "God can overwhelm what overwhelms you."

The problem is that not many realize that they are being overwhelmed. Wake up you sleeping Church. By giving grace where grace has not yet been poured out is pulling the rug out from under God's power. We are telling people they don't need God. God can overwhelm what overwhelms the world, but not if it hasn't had the Light shined upon it. Humanity always has and always will seek something outside of itself. Drugs, drink, sex, whatever, is where people are turning. Those are desires of the heart that God give them over to. That desire is not ever met in this form so God again gives them over, but this time to degrading passions, exchanging "normal" lust for degrading lust. Why wouldn't they seek these things when the church is asking them to give money to something that doesn't have the power to change ANYTHING. We've denied God His reward by dispensing HIS grace and judging those who are His to judge. Judge not also means judging someone saved from something they have no desire (or knowledge of) to be saved from.


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Matt Smith

 2010/4/30 9:30Profile
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Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
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 Re:

For me the major issue here is that some of the "church" is condoning said behavior. Calling good evil, and evil good.

While I too continue to love those who have any of these sins embraced, I also know that we need to take a stand for righteousness, not in a self righteous way, lest we also fall, but in a I love my brother enough to speak the truth to him way so he becomes a brother.

Wednesdy night my pastor mentioned this coming out event and also said what if we think we were born with a desire towards children or animals? Will we feel justified to pursue our lust in that area and use as an excuse, I was born with that tendency? What about murder? Sin is sin and we all need to repent of our sin. There is a long list of sins mentioned in Romans 1 along with Sodom's sin and we need to check our own hearts in each area. However this thread is about what is becoming acceptable in the church and in this we need to take a stand.

The man I mentioned went to a "church" that made that totally acceptable. In the end he really separated himself from me because I told him what the word said and wouldn't soft soap it.


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KLC

 2010/4/30 11:09Profile
Areadymind
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Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
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 Re:

So far this thread has been very civil and I appreciate everyone's commentary. I do not know if this article could change the direction, but I am only posting it to emphasize the idea that it will become increasingly common to view sin as a virtue. And the Bible will be used to promote it. And each one of us are going to stand out more and more in stark relief to the darkness pervading our world, as the Day Star arises in our hearts. The Bible is being used to promote wickedness. I suppose this has happened in certain sects historically but has it ever happened on such a massive scale, so out in the open, and so promoted by so many? And even what we consider "so many" may be a paltry sum compared to what it appears to be becoming.

[url=http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2010/04/29/news/local_news/news2908.txt]Preacher Debunks Damnation Theories. [/url]

I also wanted to say that I agree that anyone can be saved, anyone can repent. Even Paul could, however I think the main point of this thread has been more to explore the idea of how wickedness is being turned into a virtue in the public's eye through the use of people whom call themselves, "Christians." I have no doubt the Spirit is able to convert anyone whom is steeped in homosexuality, or any other sin there is for that matter. The main concern I have however is over those whom have been "Christians," who drag many little ones into the sea with them as their millstones cause them to plummet to the depths of hell. All the while such death is celebrated.

I just started reading "The Road to Reality," By K.P. Yohannan, and I loved how he opened the book with this statement. "We lost it. Somewhere along our journey from a dead religion of laws and guilt, we modern Christians have misplaced the other side of grace. It was undoubtedly left beside the road with the best of motives. I'm sure that most of those who abandoned reality sincerely wanted to display the immeasurable love of God to a lost and needy world. But we have failed to reveal the wonderful grace of Jesus we sing about with obedience in our everyday lives. Instead, we have produced an "old dishwater" kind of religion--that insipid, lukewarm faith that Jesus said He would spew out of His mouth!"

He says later, "We've been taught to serve up a watered-down gospel for so long that the real gospel has become an embarrassment."

I agree, we are reaping the fruit now of a sloppily presented gospel...

Will this generation of true believers pick up the torch? Or are we going to leave it lying on the cave floor, content to spelunk aimlessly the rest of our lives?



Quotes from: "The Road to Reality," K.P. Yohannan, Creation House publications, second printing, April 1989. Copyright 1988 by K.P. Yohannan


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/5/1 1:04Profile
reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

You have to remember Christian music is a business not a ministry. We confuse the two because of the music. Its for profit, explaining why so many cross over to Christian music. Do we really need so many christian musicians? To me I see so much worldliness in Christian music.



 2010/5/1 9:05Profile
Areadymind
Member



Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean

 Re:

Yet another article to be added to the list.

A man was arrested for commenting to a passerby that homosexuality was a sin when he was asked, upon doing so he was arrested and detained in prison...this happened in the U.K. He spent seven hours in prison.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7668448/Christian-preacher-arrested-for-saying-homosexuality-is-a-sin.html]Christian Preacher Arrested for Saying Homosexuality is a Sin. [/url]


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Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/5/2 23:26Profile





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