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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is God Post-Modern?

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Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343

 Is God Post-Modern?

If I was an atheist... looking into the Church from the outside in... I would have several issues in regards to Christianity and Objective Truth vs Post-Modernism.

For those who are not philosophically savvy... post modernism means that everything is relative... nothing is REALLY true, what is true for you, may not be necessarily true for me.

Dozens of denominations vary on doctrine and interpretation, yet claim that Scripture is objectively true (for the most part, I know there are some extremes that even challenge this notion)... for example... Limited Atonement... did Jesus really die only for His people? or did He die for all people to open a way to salvation?

Or... is pacifism the way to go? or is there a such thing as a just war?

Or... is home-schooling the 'biblical' way to raise your kids? or is public schooling allowed?

Are people really depraved / evil? Or are we just kinda mislead, and need help on the 'better' way to God?

And then Christians draw an arbitrary line and label some groups of people as cults, and refer to Joel Olsteen / Rich Warren as a 'brother in Christ.'

All these denominations and groups of people claim to be 'born-again,' and claim that 'truth' exists... If God is objectively true, and not post-modern, why does He allow His children to hold to diametrically opposing viewpoints in reference to Scripture, when all Scripture is interpreted through one God, one person in specific, the Holy Spirit?


 2010/4/7 8:00Profile

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2676
Nottingham, England

 Re: Is God Post-Modern?

Let me say this, and you might not react favourably toward it.

But I do wonder at the mind behind this kind of thinking.

What is the purpose of posting this?

Just something to think about.

 2010/4/7 8:30Profile

Joined: 2009/5/15
Posts: 1042
Pacific Ocean


Erroneous thinking about the scriptures is not the fault of God. It is the fault of faulty men, whom take pride in their positions. The Lord allows people to be blind to truth. Consider the Kingdom Parables, they might give you insight into this principle. Jesus warned that the kingdom would become inflated, and we were also warned about the sheep and the goats. It is the duty of God to separate the two in the last time. Consider also a deep contemplation of the book of Jude. As he warned that there are many natural men whom eat among us as spots in our love feasts. The word there for spots implies a jagged rock, barely visible right under the surface of the ocean. Ships would hit these rocks, not knowing they were there and they would be shipwrecked. Don't allow the spots to bother you bro. Just keep contending for the faith once delivered.

The scriptures are layered with truth, but don't confuse peoples convictions with rock solid biblical truth.

Since the first moments people were evangelized there were those in the earliest moments of the church...bleating as goats.

There were also some at Rome whom had zero conviction about eating meat sacrificed to idols, and some whom considered it repugnant to the point of shaking their faith if they saw an older brother doing it. There have always been theological conflicts in the kingdom bro. God does not seem to be bothered by it that much, why are you? Jesus said that His sheep would know his voice. Are you listening to His voice or the voice of men? I will tell you what, the voices of men can be a cacophonous bedlam. The voice of our shepherd...Oh what a difference. He leads us beside still waters. Praise his holy name. Praise the wonders of His wisdom. Praise him for leading me/us through, and not around the valley of the shadow of death.

Having been through the deep and dark post-modern valleys brother, I can say that I recognize you are in one. I thought for a while that I was going to loose my faith...but he carried me through. There is nothing I could recommend to you more than getting away from the internet...away from men's books, take your Bible and spend some serious time seeking the countenance of God.

Jeremiah Dusenberry

 2010/4/7 9:19Profile

Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


Let me say this, and you might not react favourably toward it. But I do wonder at the mind behind this kind of thinking. What is the purpose of posting this? Just something to think about.

Normally I would have jumped at the opportunity to jump all over somebody who would question my motives without knowing my personal life... But I am assume that God has granted me sufficient grace to move beyond that...

I say this in hopes that you might be edified...

I believe it unwise to jump to conclusions about the motives of individuals over the internet, while lacking conclusive evidence of that particular individual's story.

But I shall clarify my motives for you.

The Pharisees sought to make religion objective, a checklist of do's and don'ts... As I find myself studying doctrine and theology, I am forced to always self-examine, and find myself caught between legalism on one side, and pure subjectivism / post-modernism on the other.

If God is truly as He says He is, "the Way, the Truth, and the Life..." He states that He is Truth... "what is truth?" Pilate asked...

I ask, what is truth?

Is my conscience to be the ultimate judge of what is right? If the Holy Spirit does indeed dwell inside of me? For this is what Paul instructs believers, do not cause a believer to sin against his conscience.

But what if his conscience goes directly in conflict with another believer, perhaps an even more mature believer? Do they let bygones be bygones, and live contradictory lifestyles? Simply because of conscience being the standard of their freedom in Christ?


 2010/4/8 12:32Profile

Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE


Let our speech be seasoned with grace, let us
declare the truth in love; let us regard others
better than ourselves. That is the Spirit of
true fellowship!!

Martin G. Smith

 2010/4/8 14:38Profile

Joined: 2009/9/2
Posts: 60


If you think about it, God is pre-modern, modern, and post-modern all at once. I mean, He was the same yesterday as He is today and will be for always, right?

But all kidding aside...

"why does He allow His children to hold to diametrically opposing viewpoints in reference to Scripture, when all Scripture is interpreted through one God, one person in specific, the Holy Spirit?"

Are they then really His children living for Him, or are they just simply following a religion with strict rules and traditions? That's not to say there aren't True children of God within these denominations (there are even Catholics who are True children), but if you think about it, most of those who are persecuted on a regular basis in foreign countries aren't even affiliated with any denomination. They don't understand "philosophy" (which is man's reasoning anyway, not God's reasoning). They only understand that Jesus suffered and died for them and they'd do the same for Him (and are doing so for Him).

Also, pride is one of the easiest sins to fall into, and even I'm guilty of pride via misdirected devotion (which I've repented of and asked forgiveness)! Pride is the sin that got Satan kicked out of Heaven, and pride is the sin behind why we have so many denominations. A bit like Cain's sacrifice versus Abel's sacrifice.

God bless.


 2010/4/8 17:49Profile

Joined: 2009/12/20
Posts: 3

 Re: Is God Post-Modern?

I'm very very sure that God is not post-modern, if my definition of post-modernism is the same as yours.

The Bible is like cement. It will stay as it is. If you're wondering about interpretations, well, Jesus Himself spoke as One who had authority. He knew what Scripture was about and He never entertained school of thoughts. I doubt we should entertain school of thoughts either. The scribes and teachers of laws probably entertained such schools of thoughts and Jesus spoke sternly to them.

My pastor told me once and I heartily agree with him. People want to find out about election and so on. But the whole world is dying and we argue to whether Jesus died for all or died for the elect. We can spent the time praying and if the Lord wants to give us a revelation of election that's biblical, then praise God for that. It doesn't matter whether it's limited atonement or whatever not. If you can prove to me that limited atonement is biblically true, then I will accept it. But personally I don't believe God sent His Son to die for only the elect.

Moral laws are set out strictly by God and it is to be strictly adhered to.

Some things like drinking may be an issue to people. Jesus Himself drank wine when He attended a wedding. Paul told Timothy to drink wine because a little wine is good for the stomach. However, people may struggle with drunkenness hence it's best that we don't drink it in front of people who struggle with drunkenness lest they see it as a license to indulge in the sin they are fighting with. There are many issues to consider, eg. the place you drink etc, who you're drinking etc. But if I know that I'm better off not drinking because I know I might cause a brother to sin or it might cause me to fall, I might as well totally abstain from it.

Things like schooling.. ah I don't think the Lord Himself is very concerned whether your kids are home-schooled or not. I went to a public school myself and so do many Christians in my church. But if it's the Lord's will for your kids to be home-schooled, then it'll be wise to obey it.

Things like going to war and so on. Some people believe that a man has to go to war if he needs to. Not because he delights in the killing but because he loves his country and his family and yearns to protect it with his life. I think I'll take this side of view.

It's for certain that all men, apart from God, are bad. Sin is a horrible thing. Men are only made good by the blood of Jesus. Bible says that "No one is upright." If I'm not upright,then it will mean I'm a sinner and there's not a ounce of good in me.

As for prosperity gospel preachers, well, maybe I might adopt the approach of abstaining from their books and sermons. But if they are truly saved, then they are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

And lastly, I don't think God will allow His children to hold opposing viewpoints in reference to Scripture.

I hope I can be corrected if I made a mistake!

 2010/4/14 1:19Profile

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