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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?

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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?


Are you guys kidding about this topic? lol Do you know that mystical means "having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither [b]apparent[/b] to the senses nor [b]obvious[/b] to the intelligence."

This whole thread sounds like something mystical, God is not mystical.

[i]I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.[/i]
Rev 1.18

I find it hard to believe that Satan can use any "true believer." If Christ has the keys to hell and death, what does satan have? Zilch! but that's just me!!

[i]And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.[/i]
Matt 28.18

Let's extract the precious from the worthless and believe the Word of God not some man's so called vision or dream.

God bless you all,


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Lisa

 2010/4/2 19:17Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Lysa

All power is given to Christ, and God and can tie up the old serpent whenever he chooses to, but human choices still have a bearing on how they fair against him. Satan can still get at true believers if they give him the space.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

1 Timothy 5:15 For already some have turned aside after Satan.

If a 'true believer' lies, he is being used by (or at least being useful to) Satan, the father of all lies.

Or perhaps you are refuting the the word 'used' in the sense of a true believer being 'possessed'?

PassingThru

 2010/4/2 22:54Profile
osandoval
Member



Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

Quote:
Then it is NOT the true gospel being preached by these men now is it? A gospel without the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ present is not the gospel at all, but an allegory, an anecdote if you will, but not the true gospel.


Quote:
If the gospel being preached by men does not bring life to the listener, then it is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ, especially if the men preaching have NOT received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And yes you can be a believer and have not received the Holy Spirit



Earendel, Lysa,
A true believer can preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ(Christ crucified and resurrected, repentance toward God, faith in Christ, Heaven and Hell, Judgment Day), yet he can do it in his own strength, if lacking in his prayer life.
A true believer can do this even if he has been filled with the Spirit in the past. You can lose the filling or anointing of the Spirit, if you quench or grieve the Spirit.
The filling is an ongoing thing, not a once and for all thing. It's a day by day crucifying of the flesh and fervently seeking the Lord in prayer and the Word.
Are you going to say that a true believer who has been filled with the Spirit cannot grieve or quench the Spirit and then go and preach in his own strength?

 2010/4/3 0:51Profile









 Re: Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?


Hello osandoval,

I have skimmed through the thread only, briefly, to see if the scriptures which came to my mind, prompted by the title of your thread, had been mentioned by others.

narrowpath mentioned 'die daily', which is the angle which struck me immediately.

From Gen 3:4, confirmed by Jesus in John 8:44, Paul often talks about the necessity of death to everything of the natural mind of the flesh, of sin, and, of self. Peter backs this up in 1 Pet 4:1, which seems to be what daniel had in mind in his post.

Your phrase 'minister death' may be being misunderstood by me, but I wanted to mention the above scriptures and those that follow, not so much to broaden the discussion, but for you to rule them in, or, rule them out, for the sake of clarity against the whole counsel of the New Testament.

1 Tim 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; [b]whom I have delivered unto Satan[/b], that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Cor 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 [b]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh[/b], that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


There are various ways to preach Christ, the Truth, which are spiritually edifying and potentially life-giving. (I say this as one who listens and responds, rather than as a preacher.) I'm not sure how many categories they fall into, but certainly these: the lifting up of the name, person, work and glory of the Lord Jesus Christ (for its own sake); the proclaiming and exposition of the fact and meaning of His death on the cross; the call to exalt Him as Lord over every part of one's life; the gospel proclamation to call on His mercy for one's own salvation.

Without doubt, if the preacher has not entered into a living relationship with God, through faith in Christ Jesus, apart from the sovereign choice of God Himself to empower the proclamation of biblical truth with the working of the Holy Spirit in the hearers, it is very possible that the preacher will minister death, rather than life, mainly because he himself is a hypocrite.

The notable exception perhaps, is John Wesley, who famously, preached effectively for some months, before he himself could testify with confidence, to having been born again.

 2010/4/3 9:20
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
So what about the need for prayer and the outpouring of the Spirit on us before we preach. How do we reconcile that need with this Scripture? Can it be that if we do not seek the Lord enough we will not see as much of the power of God as we would had we sought Him more. And that the devil cannot then turn that around and use it for his kingdom. So maybe it's just a matter of the level of God's power being demonstrated. Just thinking out loud here.



Think you have it right. Paul never said the ones who preached of contention were effective and bore much fruit. He just praised God that the gospel was getting out and people were hearing the message. I believe in much prayer and fasting and being an anointed vessel when I teach. I have found though that the Word had its own anointing and it is much more worth my time to seek relationship with God and prepare the messenger. He can then speak clearly to me and the message seems to take care of itself to a certain extent. (Study and preparation still required.)

Travis


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Travis

 2010/4/6 17:55Profile









 Re: Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?

quoting from the quote

Quote:
And that the devil cannot then turn that around and use it for his kingdom.

I am moved, Travis, by your integrity towards practical and spiritual preparation for ministry.

My comment is, mainly, that while this is bound to bring more power to the message, and thus to its impact upon the hearers, the hearer has to take full responsibility for his or her response to what God has spoken to his or her heart. It cannot be the speaker's fault if there are misunderstandings on the part of hearers, because of the preconceptions or ignorances they bring to the mix.

That said, I do believe God honours all their attempts to obey, and fully He intends to disenfranchise them of those misconceptions and any misinformation which has been sent their way by other teacher/preachers whom they've heard.

Eph 1:17, 18, 19, 20, and other prayers, are needful for us all.



 2010/4/7 7:54
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
My comment is, mainly, that while this is bound to bring more power to the message, and thus to its impact upon the hearers, the hearer has to take full responsibility for his or her response to what God has spoken to his or her heart. It cannot be the speaker's fault if there are misunderstandings on the part of hearers, because of the preconceptions or ignorances they bring to the mix.



Absolutely! The fact that the teacher is held to high account before God does not absolve the hearer from responsibility as well.


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Travis

 2010/4/8 17:52Profile
dspks
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Joined: 2006/3/15
Posts: 168
Dakotas

 The "Word of God is quick and powerful!!"

Scripture does not say: The "PREACHER is quick and powerful".

What preacher is EVER "prepared enough" to handle the "WORD OF GOD"???

GOD HONORS HIS WORD!!! 1Corinthians 1:27-29.

Yes, there are religious charlatans and God will hold them responsible... but, GOD honors HIS WORD.

If a starving neighbor is desperate for food and you send your VERY crippled son over to the neighbor with a loaf of bread ... will the neighbor be looking at the crippled son OR the loaf of bread???

 2010/4/8 19:33Profile
osandoval
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Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re: The "Word of God is quick and powerful!!"

I want to express much thanks to everyone for their replies on this thread. They have been very helpful to me.

Just to clarify, by "minister death" I meant causing more harm than good. I totally understand that the hearers are responsible for how they respond to the true gospel. Yet it also seems clear from Scripture that the preaching believer is also responsible for making sure that he/she has an intimate relationship with God in order to be effective in the Master's use. Both are true.

I mainly started this thread so that I and others might be exhorted to seek the Lord diligently in our service to Him. He says He is a rewarder of them that seek Him diligently(Heb. 11:6). And Jesus said, "this kind only comes out by prayer and fasting."(Matt.17:21)

It seems that in these days many are trying to serve the Lord in their own strength. There are many who have started to preach the true gospel in the open air, and that's a good thing. But much stress needs to be made on more prayer and wholehearted seeking after God. I have been guilty of serving Christ in my own strength. And I have known others also who try evangelize while holding on to many idols, such as sports and entertainment, etc., without seeing the need to truly seek God with all their heart. I am realizing more and more that God is not pleased with that type of service to Him. It is hypocrisy.

 2010/4/9 0:27Profile
elected
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Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:

Nearthecross:

Quote:
I think you may be referring to the vision of Duncan Campbell, where he saw the devil preaching the Gospel on a street corner. Upon asked why he was preaching, the devil told him that one of his most powerful weapons was the proclamation of the Gospel without the anointing of the Spirit.



That's what the devil fears more then anything else, preachers with pentecostal power and with tongues of fire (i dont mean nescessary tongues) burning with the holy zeal and consumed with a passion for Christ and the lost.

Paul rejoiced even when the gosple was preached from a wrong motive because he knew that God in his sovereignty can use his ploclaimed Word to save sinners despite the unsanctified instrument. God may permit this but does not command it, and thats the difference.

The disciples of Jesus were commanded to tarry in Jerusalem till they were baptized in the Holy Ghost, imagin what whould have happend if they went out to preach the gosple without being filled with the Spirit and endued with power from on high? How weak the presentation of the gosple would have been without the indwelling and the power of the Holy Spirit. It would have been impossible for them to go and make disciples of all the nations and obey the Lord's great commission.

Preaching the gosple without the anointing of the Holy Spirit is preaching the gosple without the Holy Spirit, for every genuine believer is indwelled by the holy Spirit and has the anointing in him, if he has not greived or quenched the fire and lapsed from faith in the Lord.

John said to the early christians, "you have the anointing in you". One symbol of the Holy Spirit is oil, and if we run out of oil there will be no more light to shine out thru us. We will be like the foolish virgins slumbering at the comming of the Lord and not ready to meet the master.

Of all the religious groups in the time of Jesus, the pharises were the one most sharply rebuked by Him for their hypocrisy and unbelief. The pharises were the most orthodox sect of the day but they were the most self-righteous too who considered themselves in no need for a doctor (Jesus) to heal their spiritual blindness.

Its not different today, the most dangerous enimies of the gosple are not those outside the church but those inside the church, "the wolves in sheeps clothings" who have the appearance of godliness but void of its power. And our churches are filled with this kind of professing christians. The tares are among the wheat and the tares outnumber way to much the wheat. The proffessing preacher with the outward garment of orthodoxy preaches the gosple without being sent or called from the Lord. He's got his commission and licence to preach from the leaders of his almost dead denomination, and by his preaching he adds to the deadness and lethargy of the congregation. Who's will is he doing, not that of God for sure, for he does not know the life of God in his own soul, he does not bare the cross to follow his Lord. He preaches about the gosple but he does not live the gosple. He preaches about Christ and justification but does not live in vital union with Him. He preaches about sanctification but he does not have victory over sin. He preaches about the cross but does not identify himself with the cross of the Saviour and his sufferings.

Whom is this preacher serving, without no doubt the devil and he is an intrument of the devil who appears as an angel of light to deceive many. Im talking about an unregenerated proffessing christian.

Someone can lay the sacrifice on the altar for God but if the fire does not fall down from heaven to consume it, his socalled faith will count for nothing. Fire from heaven makes all the difference. The demonstration of the power of the Holy Ghost makes all the difference in the preaching of the gosple. The sign of pentecost is the tongue of fire. A preacher without holy Ghost fire is like a torch without fire good for nothing.

A preacher will either minister death or life, if he has the life giving Spirit of Christ he will minister life and be a poured out wine to others, if he is only a scribe skilled in the letter of the law he will minister death and be an instrument of darkness. There is no neutrality here, you are either for God or against God.

Blessings,

Redi

***edited***




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Redi

 2010/4/9 3:05Profile





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