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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?

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Earendel
Member



Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re: Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?

Quote:
by osandoval on 2010/3/30 12:30:15

I have been considering this matter recently. I remember vaguely a quote about a vision or dream someone had in which the devil was using a Christian's preaching to minister death to the hearers, because the Christian did not have the anointing of the Spirit. Does anyone have that quote? I know that the Lord sometimes uses false ministers to bring salvation to the lost. But I was wondering if satan can use true believers to minister death, even if the true believer is preaching the true gospel; for lack of prayer and fellowship with God, etc. I look forward to any replies and/or Scriptures in answer to the question.



It would not be the true gospel if souls are not being saved.

Your title is an oxymoron of terms. The true gospel will only bring life and not death. True believers to minister death? another oxymoron!

a person can hear the gospel and whether they respond is up to them.


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David

 2010/3/31 19:30Profile
osandoval
Member



Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

Erendel, there seems to be a misunderstanding. We are not saying it is great to see insincere preachers preach Christ. I do not see how the title to the Post is an oxymoron of terms. There are some, like Duncan Campbell, who seem to believe that Satan can use the preaching of a true Christian to minister death, if the Christian does not have the dew of the Spirit upon him and his preaching. And there are others who disagree with that, according to the Philipians passage quoted below. I just wasn't sure where I stood on that. But I don't think this should be a matter of contention. We can respectfully share our thoughts on the matter, without being contentious.

 2010/4/1 12:41Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Does the unbeliever have ears to hear?

Who must open the ears of those that hear and believe?

Acts 28:25-27 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

These are those that have ears to hear, but only the speaking of their father the devil.


Acts 28:28-31 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

These are those that our New Father have opened the ears of, that they will hear and be saved.

So, it does not matter who the preaching is by, but those that have been given ears to hear will know the true gospel, and be able to allow the Word of God to accomplish what it is intended to do.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

These are those that the mystery has been revealed to and have ears to hear given by our new Father, who has rebirthed the Incorruptable seed of Christ in us. We hear and know that the Christ in us is the only hope of Glory.

Then we know the Holy Spirit that is also in our soulish part, that is our rational mind will and emotions, that we might know the Christ that is in us and know the love of our New Father, for we were instructed to pray in this way, "our Father". The Father of Christ is our Father also, now that we are born again by the Word of God, which is Christ in you the Hope if Glory.

Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Amazing Love, The Father loves His birthed children spiritually by Faith, just as The Father loves His only begotten Son.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2010/4/1 16:23Profile
osandoval
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Joined: 2010/2/19
Posts: 89


 Re:

One reason why I started this thread was this; I was trying to see whether or not we should be challenged to pray more fervently and diligently by the thought that our preaching can be used by Satan, if we do not pray as such. In particular I had in mind those of us who preach the gospel to the lost regularly. But I have not found any biblical precedence for that type of a challenge or thought, or view(that Satan can use the true gospel).

 2010/4/1 21:05Profile
daniel-
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Joined: 2005/8/25
Posts: 130
Germany

 Re:

Dear brothers,

there is a big difference between preaching at your own choosing and being sent by the Spirit of God.

You can do all kinds of stuff, you can preach, teach, give out tracts, witness, go out and be active and yet there is no operation of the Law of the Spirit of Life! One day the Lord will zero down all human activities in the name of God and only that which has been in Christ will remain. A lot of christian activity is hubble and straw that will be burned up in the day of judgement. Only when a vessel has been totally emptied and broken, made nothing can it become a fit vessel for the glory of God, only then God Himself can minister life. The Son can do nothing of Himself, and we are called to learn of Jesus and take His yoke upon us for His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Only in total dependancy on God can He do anything through us, everything else is absolutely void of life, even though God uses religious christian activities all the time simply because He loves people.

Daniel


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Daniel Sahm

 2010/4/2 8:37Profile
PassingThru
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Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:
...that our preaching can be used by Satan



I don't think it's right to say that our preaching in itself is used by Satan, but I think it would be right to say that our lack of anointing is.

If theologically correct preaching is the only option on the menu, Satan would much prefer the "prayer-free, anointing-free" flavour.

Quote:
I was trying to see whether or not we should be challenged to pray more fervently and diligently



Acts 6:4 But we will continue steadfastly in prayer and in the ministry of the word.

PassingThru




 2010/4/2 14:11Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:
It sounds like chapter three of Power Through Prayer.



Thank you for posting this - I'm reading it for the first time and it really speaks to me.

PassingThru.

 2010/4/2 14:24Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1202
Germany NRW

 Re: Can Satan Minister Death Through True Gospel Preaching?

I have seen it at work. Dead orthodoxy. Your hear it, it sounds right, but it is sterile. It leaves your eye dry. You cannot even find much fault which it. I pondered over this mystery. They preach ABOUT Christ, but they do not preach Christ. The man has never been in the furnace of Christ's affliction. He does not die daily. His mind is sharp his cold logic makes your bone marrow freeze. Factual truth, nothing more. It creates no tug in your soul to urge you into the prayer closet. He is a master of rhetoric, a skillful mechanic. He can crack jokes and bring even anecdotes. You come out of it with bigger head knowledge, your spirit is not uplifted, your thirst for living water not quenched. No embarrassing weakness displayed.

Lord save us from these men!

 2010/4/2 16:15Profile
Earendel
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Joined: 2009/3/17
Posts: 308
Central Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:
by narrowpath on 2010/4/2 11:15:58

I have seen it at work. Dead orthodoxy. Your hear it, it sounds right, but it is sterile. It leaves your eye dry. You cannot even find much fault which it. I pondered over this mystery. They preach ABOUT Christ, but they do not preach Christ. The man has never been in the furnace of Christ's affliction. He does not die daily. His mind is sharp his cold logic makes your bone marrow freeze. Factual truth, nothing more. It creates no tug in your soul to urge you into the prayer closet. He is a master of rhetoric, a skillful mechanic. He can crack jokes and bring even anecdotes. You come out of it with bigger head knowledge, your spirit is not uplifted, your thirst for living water not quenched. No embarrassing weakness displayed.

Lord save us from these men!



Then it is NOT the true gospel being preached by these men now is it? A gospel without the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ present is not the gospel at all, but an allegory, an anecdote if you will, but not the true gospel.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45


If the gospel being preached by men does not bring life to the listener, then it is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ, especially if the men preaching have NOT received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And yes you can be a believer and have not received the Holy Spirit

I guess the key to all of this is, is the Holy Spirit present? And how do you know the Holy Spirit is present?

I guess this is a great mystery to all of Christianity, but not to all. A question to be asked is: Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?

I will speak then by experience. I know His presence! I know when He is near! I feel His presence, His anointing in my spirit! Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed? Have you received the life-giving Spirit of Jesus Christ since you believed?

But know this:

Not all that say Lord Lord...Matthew 7:21

...Now if anyone [b]does not have the Spirit of Christ[/b], he is not His. Romans 8:9


To ask again this question...

Are most Roman Catholics saved, I mean they hear Jesus preached? How about Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Liberal Gospels that ordain practicing homosexuals and lesbians, and a host of other false gospels...are these saved that have heard Jesus preached by them? But Christ is being preached, and as long as Jesus is being preached that's okay right? maybe not...(maybe some will be saved, God only knows)

Preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ without the anointing and conviction of the Holy Spirit is like eating bread with no water to wash it down.

I think it is more dangerous for a person to hear a skewed Gospel of Jesus Christ (which is NOT the true gospel), and for it to not change you and give you repentance, and to cause you to walk before God, then it is for a person to have never heard the gospel at all. It would be better to have never been born at all then to hear the words of Jesus and then not be saved.

A person can be a believer in Jesus and have been baptized in water and still have NOT received the Holy Spirit.

...let's look at what the bible says:

Acts 8:14-17 states:

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.


There you have it, you can be a water baptized believer in Jesus and NOT have received the Holy Spirit. There is an infilling of the Holy Spirit that happens AFTER conversion and water baptism, and sometimes before water baptism as in the case of Cornelius and those that were with him. At least according the bible that I read.

So much for the false doctrine of cessationism.

Having said that, I do not believe that every one will speak in tongues as evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The Apostle Paul points this out:

1 Corinthians 12:29-31 states:

29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.


A person will absolutely KNOW when they have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit...this is an experience like no other.

The Apostle Paul writes (pay attention to verse 16):

Romans 8:14-16 (New King James Version)

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,


He bears witness to our spirit that we are His...this witness I know and hereby testify that this is a very real and tangible experience of the Power of God.

The true gospel of Jesus Christ brings life and NOT death.


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David

 2010/4/2 17:18Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1202
Germany NRW

 Re:

Quote:
Then it is NOT the true gospel being preached by these men now is it?



Is it a true gospel that they teach? Hmm. True can be true but be void of authenticity. Truth can be cruel and unloving. This is the letter that killeth. The letter is very scripture itself, but void of the spirit. Satan uses scripture, too.

I heard the story of a man who had memorized the whole bible and still was not saved. He later came under conviction and got saved.

A preacher of the gospel has to carry the life and death of Christ in himself. The man must be the message himself and filled with the Spirit of God.

 2010/4/2 19:09Profile





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