| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
When we consider error in the church at large, we must first consider what the standard is that we compare the fault with the true. In the christian realm, it is always the Bible, the word of God, that is the infallible authority in these realms, and the deeds and fruit that follow.
We must also understand that the nature of deception is always mixture...a counterfeit; a big hunk of truth, mixed in with portions of the lie.
IHOP is that. We derive the pure doctrines of the mechanics of the church from the writings from the Lord Jesus, and the apostles. Paul is undeniably chief in setting these doctrines forth, and remember, these doctrines always dovetail into the operations of the LOCAL CHURCH!
There is no variation from this in scripture. Pastors, Elders, overseers, bishops....I like Shepherds...are ordained by the Lord to feed, protect, and manifest Jesus's authority so that the Spirit rules within the church and is not quenched or sullied.
IHOP is not a local church; it is a para-church; a movement based group. Therefore, it has chosen to adapt it's own rules and methods that enhance it's mission. It's mission is to create a super-spiritual clan that will also be an offering of worship to the Lord in the purist sense; 24 hour, 7day, yearly and consistent worship until Jesus returns. Mike bickle believes that he has been commissioned to build the:
"THE RESTORATION OF THE FALLEN TABERNACLE OF DAVID"
13. After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me.
14."Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
15. "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16. AFTER THESE THINGS, I will return,
AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,
AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,
AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17. SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
18.SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.
19. "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
We see that the true restoration of the Tabernacle of David is simply the Church manifest; the body of Christ; the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is the local church, in all of her weakness and mercies, extending a Spirit filled hand to each other and to the world, until we all grow up into the fullness of Christ. She is weak, and yet strong...filled with infants, teen-agers, marriage troubles, bills, work and taxes; yet, at the same time, holy and powerful, as Christ dwells in Her. The weak have a home in Her.
Not so in a monastic order.
[ I will continue in 2 IHOP QUESTIONED.]
| 2010/3/29 9:25|
| Re: 2--Ihop questioned...brothertom|
IHOP is that. A neo-monastic order...with many of the accoutrements of the Catholic counterparts...the cloister; the nunnery; the MONASTERY, WITH ALL OF THEIR ERRORS! The super-spiritual society...the cutting edge, the Elijah generation.
1. Contemplative prayer. It is pagan in custom and historically. It is the Babylonian counterfeit to true prayer. It is inward, promoting mantra and guided imagery. It teaches to empty the mind, rather than pray by faith through the son of God seated at the right hand of the Father. It is pagan, and faithfully promoted by IHOP. It is a major error.
[ also aesthetic pagan practices such as "speech fasting", along with the "fasted lifestyle". It's Babylonian Catholicism.]
2. Rote, or repetitive PRAISE, done as exercise, rather than SPIRIT led by faith. Teams do SETS...over and over and over....usually 30-40 hours a week. This is deemed as WORSHIP, and it is not. It is aesthetic legalism; a counterfeit to true, free and often spontaneous praise...stemming from the heart, not the will, and a legalistic compulsion.
[2.] ...Much of this stems from the Catholic sub-doctrines of living a sacrificial life...the more you sacrifice the better. [ ultimately become a monk or nun]...always give more...and the more sacrifice the more pleasing you are to God.
[ IHOP fellowships Catholics, and particularly the "prayer cloisters" around the world. I have witnessed Nuns and "fathers" on stage with Mike in the early days of IHOP.["Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of DARKNESS!"]...again...experience trumps doctrine..]
At IHOP the devotees are constantly flattered as BEING PRAYER MISSIONARRIES"..."FORERUNNERS"...and "FRIENDS OF THE BRIDEGROOM"...and bannered as the "one half of one per-cent" who devote all to Jesus....The super-spiritual few...like Elijah, and John the Baptist. It always promotes "HIGH SPIRITUALITY" and ends in "COLD LOVE", as all monasteries do. It is bondage, but these kids believe it. It freezes their spiritual growth in pride; believing they are something they are not.
3. The taking of Oaths. This is forbidden in the bible...and is used to control. It is actually called sacred by the IHOP mandate, and it is a document that you must sign, to be a part of her. IHOP demands that you swear this oath, with your signature. This controls the prayer room, the musicians, and the teams that perform. Often it is for a period of time..several months, a year, or whatever the requirement for the level that you buy into.
4. [ related to 3.] The selling of the ministry. You must pay IHOP to be there...and more or less, according to the level you attain. Beginners pay as much as 4500 dollars for a six month program. You must pay for teaching..and certain classes. The "students" are urged to solicit there friends and families and previous local churches for the cash, which in turn is handed over to the Ihop leaders.
The students are taught the methods of the fund raising missionary. Letters, pleas and speaking trips to get "supporters" on board, all for the "prayer missionary" that you have became. Professional beggary.
5. Women in authority over men. This is strictly forbidden in scripture, but yet is common practice at Ihop. There is a permissive attitude that has placed several women as leaders and teachers at IHOP; The "prophetic" especially, along with other departments. This has ,in my opinion, brought much confusion, to add into the already chaotic and cold.
| 2010/3/29 10:18|
| Re: IHOP 3....summary...Brothertom|
Mike Bickle is the Father of IHOP. there is no dispute about this. He believes that he is commissioned to establish ihops around the earth, as a birthing mother; IE; KC-IHOP.
I consider Mike Bickle a friend, though am I by no means close to him; though I know him. I have communicated with him some, and I believe that to some degree, Mike believes that I hear from the Lord.
However, there is no direct line of communication with him at present; no e-mail, no address or telephone. I would admonish him as I have in these posts; if I could.
Mike is a man of integrity, as much as I have seen; of impeccable Godly character. No, Mike Bickle is not a "cusser", nor immoral in any way. I believe that he is sincere, and believes Ihop is in the center of the will of God.
Mike embraced the Catholic mystics long ago, as the "deeper life" saints; the real devotees to Jesus. Herein is the roots of apostasy. It's, as I have said, Mixture. The Catholic mystics heralded profound experience as their banner to Christian greatness. They speak of bliss, and transcendent power, and glory. Mike reasoned that to gain their experience, you must adapt their methods.
Thereby the monastery, Ihop, and Babylon enters. Jezebel is worshipped as Mary, the demons as saints, the Pope as satanic Caesar.....[ all hidden in the symbolism at Rome..]but the ends justifies the means. It is a spirit.
The end is the completely devoted Elijah company, and the fallen tabernacle of David established by them.[24/7/365 "worship" ] "Lets not let some archaic doctrines slow us down!" "IHOP IS NOT A CHURCH!"
It has been said that good intentions pave the roadway to Hell. Many, many thousands of young saints have been wounded and disillusioned at Ihops around the world. They come wanting to sell out to Jesus, with all of their heart, and find a cold, legalistic methodology that always keeps them just a fingertip away from finding the fullness of Jesus...so they strive on....a little more sacrifice....
No, they are not open to correction at all; hundreds have tried. It's the movement crusade mentality. "All detractors are just trying to derail us from our purpose...the ONE THING! we were created for!"..[ they hear it every day..]
Only the Lord can deliver IHOP into a pure purpose. I would like you to consider this. If the church, is not a home to the weak and helpless, it is not the church. The local church is the one Divine vehicle God has anointed to save unto the uttermost the weakest and smallest. Faith works by love, and Jesus always went to the one, the singular, as being as important to Him, as the crowds.
But with the weak...the working man who must labor 6 days a week to support his family, who cannot devote endless hours in music and prayer...with the house-wife who must attend to nursing her young, cooking and cleaning, to keep her head above water.....7 days a week....with the weak minded , with the untalented, with the aged and infirmed.......TEENAGERS , and the pressures of survival..
This is what the church is made of. People who must earn a living..who cannot abandon all to cloister..to be holy.
IS THERE A WAY???? "AM I LEFT OUT???"
IHOP by inference would say that you are. The bible, and the history of the remnant church would emphatically say that you are not. That is why the lord made his true church the way he did. Whosoever may come, "LET HIM COME!"
| 2010/3/29 11:06|
| Re: |
"...they will be a problem for end time saints..."
That is confirmation for me. I made mention of this to the one who is attending these meetings. I've followed them for a while and it's so subtle in opening the doors for other unholy spirits to creep in. Little phrases and suggestive words are injected. many things said and done are of the appearance of wholesome! And that's great. But I believe that if the whole Gospel is not preached, God cannot bless disobedience. These many miracles and such are like the signs and wonders many will seek after. They wouldn't even know the True Messiah if He stood before them.
Let us not fight, but pray the Lord would open the eyes and reveal the truth of what's going on there. And that God's hand of Divine Protection would be there with those many [under trained to discern the events and testimonies] young adults.
| 2010/3/29 12:47||Profile|
| Re: |
| 2010/3/29 16:20||Profile|
| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
I've been a devoutly evangelical pastor for 25 years - devotee of A.W. Tozer, Leonard Ravenhill, Keith Green... I've also been to IHOP numerous times since 2001. Look deeper and longer than the current "outpouring". The leaders are not putting their emphasis on a "wave" of God, they're investing in people cultivating Phil. 3:10 lifestyles of prayer and fasting that are bearing fruit in missions and servanthood for the sake of Jesus. YWAM and Campus Crusade for Christ have both sought out IHOP leadership to partner with them in revamping their discipleship training. IHOP is the real deal! But not because of "manifestations"... Because their eyes are steadfast on cultivating lifestyles that are authentically built unto putting the first commandment in first place.
God's great grace to you as you continue in that same spirit brother!
| 2010/3/29 19:35||Profile|
| Re: |
O sojourner 7
Look longer and listen deeper... The leaders at IHOP are bent on Phil. 3:10 and Sermon on the Mount lifestyles. They're not focused on the momentary "visitation" of the Spirit. They're abiding passionate is to cultivate Psalm 27:4 hearts in servants of Jesus.
God's abundant grace to you as you pursue the same brother!
| 2010/3/29 19:39||Profile|
| Re: |
If the music program, with all its instruments etc. were removed, would IHOP still remain?
There is power in music that many still fail to comprehend. A former witch I listened to, warned about this sort of thing being introduced into the churches. Is it not evident as they move as one in their worship, they appear under a spell?
I am convinced without a question, there is a bigger problem here than we would want to even know. We've got to pray for discernment in everything, no matter how sincere the motives seem.
| 2010/3/29 20:29||Profile|
| Re: |
But it is so obvious that there is NOTHING they are being given to win the lost to Jesus. What are they being taught? To bring people to IHOP for the purpose of relation with seducing spirits. I usually don't talk like this but my brother is there.
And many others that are not hearing the Truth of Jesus Christ and His Atoning Work as the answer for all our needs. Anything else is simply flesh-read the Bible, it's been there the whole time! :]
Anything but Faith in what Jesus did for you personally on the Cross, is going to grieve God and not please Him. It's the Key to a proper Christian Walk. All else will result in works of the flesh for Victory.
Your Brother, Shawn.
| 2010/3/29 22:02||Profile|
| Re: |
I am reading a very old book that I bought recently at a used shop and the writer is telling the stories about how revival came in his day in the 1840's & 50's. I have read several chapters and the theme running through that is repentance, and praying until you get the flow of the Spirit. He spoke of preacher who had grown cold who substituted programs for the Spirit of God. What I was reading is exactly the same condition as we are in today. "Nothing is new under the sun". He'd meet with these preachers and if they were willing, they'd pray until God met with them and things became different in their services. He writes about the love of God being the foremost important aspect of the Christian walk. If the love of God isn't present in a persons life, soul winning would be a chore, but with that love, he had witnessed the Spirit of God moving upon people with ease and people dropping to their knees repenting without any prompting from the minister.
I don't know about you, but that's what I want.
| 2010/3/29 22:07|