| IHOP is to be questioned.|
I need an extra eye on something. Someone has been sending links from the IHOP services. I have watched for weeks now and I am just not sure I know what I'm looking at. He puts what he sends in a good light but I am not that much convinced any longer.
Now I am not one to call out ministries but I think we ought to take a look at one. There has been this IHOP "awakening" going on for months. A buddy sends me links to various healings and sayings they have. The services last many hours during the day, have loud vulgar rock music (but fitted with the words of Jesus), people shaking their heads back and forth and bodily gyrations. Also there is talk of gold dust and even one man gave an account of reaching into God's Power and it zapped him and was a hurtful thing. Today, some woman got up there and began ushering some spirit of Diana or some name like that. It's like the kids act drunk at times and others stoned. To me, these are being trained to easily come under the use of the anti-christ or an A.C. figure. I believe some call it "Babylon Children" but not sure. Mike Bickle, the cussing preacher and other emergent figures are there. They pray for fire to be in a person. That usually would sound good to me but through watching this, it seems there is some sort of strange fire.
There isn't much any preaching about anything, only a bunch of young people with guitars and drums talking about shallow religious things. I cannot be sure but I really don't believe the Lord moves upon that. There is no Jesus and Him Crucified that signs will follow. Yet many say they are healed every night... sounds fishy. Thoughts?
| 2010/3/23 20:41||Profile|
| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
But wicked people and impostors will go from
bad to worse; deceiving others and being
deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13
Martin G. Smith
| 2010/3/23 21:03||Profile|
| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
It's like the kids act drunk at times and others stoned. To me, these are being trained to easily come under the use of the anti-christ or an A.C. figure. I believe some call it "Babylon Children" but not sure. Mike Bickle, the cussing preacher and other emergent figures are there. They pray for fire to be in a person. That usually would sound good to me but through watching this, it seems there is some sort of strange fire.
I think you have it figured out. I get a channel on cable called "godtv". It's all the same stuff. Preachers talk for an hour and tell nothing but stories of weird manifestations and then they have a healing line and people say how they were healed of something or other.
It's a mockery.
| 2010/3/23 21:04||Profile|
| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
Knitefall - Absolutely agree with you here.
I have also watched some of it and it leaves me cold.
It is so like the Toronto blessing/Todd Bentley scene.
People who have entered into the scene of these meetings are often told to completely disreguard any misgivings, doubts and fears they may feel and just jump straight in - don't even question or think about anything - just accept everything as being of God! This we were constantly told to do at the time of the Toronto outbreak.
God is not in this at all, He tells us to have our mind renewed - not removed!
Be aware that 'gifts' such as healings, tongues, prophesy etc can be counterfeited - but you cannot counterfeit the fruit of the Spirit. That is why we are known by our fruit - not by the gifts!
Jesus Himself says 'many shall say to me "Lord, Lord we prophesied in your name, we cast out demons in your name" and I shall say to them "depart from me you workers of iniquity - I never knew you!' - your works were not authorised by me.
In the last days there will be many strange signs and 'lying wonders'and deceptions will be so cleverly disguised as the truth, we have to be aware of the packaging and as you say 'the false fire'
Thank God that he has given you the discernment to see through this and pray that He continues to do so for you and protect you against these last days deceptions.
It breaks my heart seeing so many people fall into these traps. There is none so blind as those who will not see or refuse to see the truth!
Study the word, it will guide your feet and be a light to your path, the Holy Spirit can then prompt and bring to your remembrance Gods word as you need His guidance.
I thank God that I had my godly upbringing and grounding by strong Christian parents and grandparents to fall back on when the Toronto blessing first hit our church.
We knew nothing about it or what was happening to our then church, but I knew without a doubt that it was a wrong Spirit and was then able to help my husband to stand strong in the fight we then endured, with complete confidence and assurance, until being forced to leave.
Our stand at that time also warned and protected my family Church, which became an oasis and a place of safety for us and to which we have now moved back to.
Knitefall - keep standing strong! and be an example for others to follow.
| 2010/3/28 20:38||Profile|
| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
Rather than just read posts of folks that are simply expressing their opinion of the week....how about we actually judge IHOP by their own words? That sounds like "doing unto others AS WE WOULD HAVE THEM do unto us". That is how we would want to be treated isn't it?
The Following is directly from the IHOP site.....
About the International House of Prayer Missions Base
On May 7, 1999, the International House of Prayer Missions Base (IHOPKC) was founded by Mike Bickle and 20 full-time intercessory missionaries who cried out to God in prayer with worship for 13 hours each day. Four months later, on September 19, 1999, our prayer and worship expanded to the full 24/7 schedule. IHOPKC is an evangelical missions organization that is committed to praying for the release of the fullness of Gods power and purpose as we actively win the lost, heal the sick, feed the poor, make disciples, and impact the seven spheres of society (family, education, government, economy, arts, media, and religion). Our vision is to work in relationship with the larger Body of Christ to serve the Great Commission, as we seek to walk out the two great commandments to love God and people.
Our new IHOPKC ministries and outreaches include increasing our current inner city outreach with a mobile food truck and on-site food distribution, discipleship programs, a health clinic, provision of food and clothing for our childrens outreaches, big brother and big sister programs, and an adopt-a-block program. Our other new outreaches include Crisis Response International that provides disaster relief, Orphan Justice Center to serve orphans and children at risk, Hannahs Dream adoption agency, Exodus Cry helping victims of human trafficking, and our Womens Life Center which will provide homes and restoration programs for victims of human trafficking, domestic violence, prostitutes who respond to the gospel, and a crisis pregnancy center and birth mother homes to help women who refuse abortion and choose life.
We believe ministry is done best when our lives are rooted in prayer and worship that focuses on intimacy with God, as we intercede for a breakthrough of the fullness of Gods power.
In addition to all the above mentioned ministry they also have 24/7 worship and intercession going forth from this place.
I have also spoken personally with dozens of folks there at the outpouring and have found them filled with repentance for themselves and the nation. I have found then full of zeal for God and a desire to see Jesus exalted and His Gospel proclaimed to the ends of the earth.
It is incredible to me the flippancy with which negative accusations are thrown out by folks with the virtually NO first hand knowledge of IHOP.
I would not wish to be seen by the Lord as a false accuser of His bretheren. In all honesty read again the heart and ministries going forth from the IHOP and then tell me what you are doing in comparison to them. If all you are doing is speaking badly of anothers ministry then it is apparent to me who is actually in error.
| 2010/3/28 21:45||Profile|
| Re: IHOP is to be questioned.|
IHOP has a long history of embracing unbiblical and wild manifestations, calling it all the Holy Spirit. Such as:
1. Touching people and knocking them over en masse in power displays and "impartations" of strange "anointings".
2. Wild convulsion like shaking on the floor, rolling around, growling like lions, barking like dogs, etc.
3. Anti-Scriptural visions and dreams, third-heaven experiences talking with departed saints, etc.
4. The "Jesus as lover" heresies perverted out of the Song of Solomon (and experiences of sexual interactions with this other "jesus" in visions and dreams)
5. Constant promotion of angels, and of visions and encounters with angels (without testing the spirits). -Even financial angels.
6. Gold dust and diamonds falling from the cieling and oil appearing on hands.
7. Trance-like worship beating pagan drums and moaning and shaking in such trances.
8. An extremely high emphasis on supernatural experiences and miracles without testing the spirits.
9. Very little repentance preaching among the leaders associated with the movement, no heart searching words that prick to the heart and bring about sound conversions.
10. Ear tickling prophecies, many of which have been documented and proven false.
The list could go on. I have read numerous testimonies of people, by their own words, who contracted demons through IHOP and associated movements and were tormented for a long time trying to get rid of them. You can probably pull up some of their testimonies online, published by Andrew Strom's email list.
I walked into an IHOP church a number of years ago and immediately discerned perverse spirits in that place. This was when I knew nothing about the movement and had nothing to go off of but the witness of the Spirit within me. I found out soon afterwards that many there were struggling with homosexuality, pornography and other sexual sins, and affairs were ripping apart the church.
At best, there is a tremendous mixture of true and false miracles, but there's so much false, we have no business of having anything to do with it.
Run for your life.
| 2010/3/28 22:20|
| Re: |
I have personal friends that attend IHOP currently and in the past. I have a very close brother of mine on one of the IHOP worship teams. A sister that attended my house church is currently attending IHOP.
That being said, I feel that it is ok to question anything and everything that mere humans say is an "outpouring of the Lord". I could care less if it the people claiming an outpouring is a brother/sister from IHOP, or brother Paul Washer. Everything should be tested in the furnance.
You say you know folks at IHOP and have first hand conversations with them... I do as well and continue to do so. So I am pretty sure that we can both say that those at IHOP would agree that all should be testing what they are doing. IHOP does not wish to be held to a different standard then others. In fact, i believe that they would embrace the questioning.
If it withstands the furnace, then let it be. If not, then pray for eyes to open and the blind to see.
| 2010/3/28 22:26||Profile|
| Re: |
So I am pretty sure that we can both say that those at IHOP would agree that all should be testing what they are doing. IHOP does not wish to be held to a different standard then others. In fact, i believe that they would embrace the questioning.
I fully agree. Your statement is absolutely true.
In my post I am referring to the practice of folks, often times posting on the forum here at SI, to judge others without anywhere near the knowledge or information to do so.
I think we would agree that all things need to be sifted and tested through the grid of God's Word. However, in looking at past threads concerninng IHOP, and a couple of posts in this thread, it is apparent that is not what is happening. Many posts are just blanket opinions based on virtually nothing other than assumption, fear, misunderstanding, a lack of Biblical understanding of the supernatural, or sometimes just plain old jealousy. It appears that many of the "heresy hunters and condemnation specialists" do not believe anything happening is from God... unless it is what is happening with them.
I must say it is disheartening to see those who have no miracles, power, or demonstation of the Spirit in their ministries or lives condemning as, "false and deceptive", those who do. Again, the message must be sifted by the Word. However, if a person honestly does that then they will be hard pressed to find fault with IHOP's message.
In fact it seems that one of the real issues is that some folks simply want to condemn anything that is emotional or supernatural. It scares them. It inevitably brings up cries of, "watch out..there are false miracles". Well I agree that there can be false miracles...thus we sift the message by the grid of scripture. However, the ones I have seen condemning others as having , "false miracles", never seem to have any "real" ones of their own. In essence they never produce the goods so they cast doubt on those who do.
Perhaps I paint with to broad a brush. It may be as simple as that many posters here are cessationists and they have never experienced the power of God. Maybe it really boils back to that.
I must say though, if Paul came, "not with enticing words of mens wisdom, but IN DEMONSTRATION OF THE SPIRIT AND POWER", how much more sorely are we in need of it. Those who are always condemning seem to think no one has a miracle manifested except the devil! If there are false miracles, and the critics are so in the "right", then why aren't the critics demonstrating real miracles to contrast with? It seems those who are the critics only have faith in the devil to do miracles... sift that through the grid of scripture and see what it comes up as.
Miccah...if you read all of this thanks for bearing with my rant. You will have been most gracious. It is all said with a heart to see God move in an undeniable and supernatural way. I agree fully with your post. You have the balance.
| 2010/3/29 7:52||Profile|
| Re: |
Solomon, why do you not go back and read the original post on this thread? The writer was not commenting on hearsay.
| 2010/3/29 9:06||Profile|
| Re: |
Some of you may be surprised, or maybe not :) that for the whole of last year I attended IHOP. I am no longer there but feel reasonably qualified to give an opinion on this thread. For the most part, I saw nothing different that what one would expect at a Pentecostal church. There was the odd strange person, manifesting noise and attention attracting activity, but for the most part there was simply praising, preaching and prayer. I did not particularly care for the worship, finding it to be soulish, but I could say that about countless churches that I have visited. The preaching, for the main part, was very good, especially from Mike Bickle. Lou Engle was the strangest of all the preachers I heard there. I believe that it is their underlying teaching that it the most dangerous. Since the late 80s, Mike and his aquaintences, have considered themselves to be special, prophets for the end of times. They have succesfully convinced the mainly younger people that attend the church, that they too are part of a special generation. Its a form of dominionism that they teach. I believe it to be a dangerous teaching, although it is quite subtle.
I also believe that the leadership have zero discernment when it comes to the likes of Todd Bentley and so on. They would steadfastly refuse to condemn someone like Todd but they would be unapologetic for that stance. There is also a strange mixture of politics mixed into their teachings which plays into the dominionism, although many of their stands would be appluaded by many on this site. Its not so much what they believe politically per-se that it the problem, its because they believe that political influence is important to their future role in the world that makes it significant.
IHOP definately has a slightly cultish feeling to it, not because they control "their people," but because they believe themself to be spiritually elite, although I am very sure that the leadership would deny that. These guys do many things well, but ultimately I believe they will be a problem for end time saints..........brother Frank
| 2010/3/29 9:15|