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Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860


Luke 18:1-8 is an illstration on prayer no where does the widow let up on bringing her case before the unjust Judge. This is how we are to be before God constantly bringing out case before the Just God through Fasting and Praying. We being apart of the Priesthood it is our job to interceed for the Lost and for Israel.

"1Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'
4"For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, 'Even though I don't fear God or care about men, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming!' "

6And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

God Bless,

Matthew Guldner

 2010/3/26 0:53Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


Hi snufalapagus...

Hi Chris, I really don't know what you mean about we don't have to work, we don't have to pray, we don't have to help the poor since God can take care of all these things. I am trying to grasp the connection to my statement in letting God defend Israel, if He is for her.

I was simply using the same sort of logic from your previous post and applying it to other things that we can consider. We are not of this world, but we still live in it. There are earthly responsibilities that we have while we are confined to this earthly sod. For instance, we must provide for the needs of our family (I Timothy 5:8). We must look after widows and orphans (James 1:27). We must submit to earthly authorities (I Peter 2:13). We must not be lazy and work if we want to eat (II Thessalonians 3:10).

Now, God is more than capable to take care of the needs of widows and orphans, our families and our own personal needs. Yet, the responsibility remains. Now consider what you wrote:

Israel can look after itself. If God is for her, lets see if He comes in her defence. She's leaned on the arm of the United States far too long, it's time to lean on God.

Now, imagine if we replaced "Israel" with the word "widows." It would read as follows:

[b]Widows[/b] can look after themselves. If God is for them, lets see if He comes in their defence. They've leaned on the [b]welfare[/b] arm of the United States far too long, it's time to lean on God.

Do you see how that sounds? Regardless of whether or not widows (or orphans, etc...) rely upon God to take care of their needs, believers are still expected to look after their needs.

We can look at Israel in several different ways. We can look at them as a secular nation (both in government and in the physical heritage of the people). We can look at them as a nation (people) who have been rejected by God and replaced as the "chosen people" by believers. Or, we can look at them as a nation (people) where they have largely rejected Messiah Yeshua, but believers are now "engrafted" into the Vine of inheritance.

Now, America is unique in that it is a "nation without a people." The United States is a nation made up of many different people from different backgrounds. The nation of Israel, however, is unique in that it traces its "birthright" back to a promise made by God to Abraham -- hundreds of years before the Law of Moses. I believe that God is "married to the backslider." He has not forsaken His people. I believe that the people spoken of in Ezekiel 37 was the physical nation of Israel (who would be gathered back to their homeland from around the world). This, in my view, was fulfilled in 1948. I also believe that God desires for all of Israel to be saved. Believers (Gentile or Jewish) can receive the same inheritance as "joint heirs" in Messiah Yeshua (Christ Jesus). This is mentioned extensively in Romans 10, Romans 11, I Corinthians 11 and in verses like Ephesians 2:12 and Ephesians 3:6. It doesn't seem like God has replaced or rejected His own chosen people. I support the nation of Israel on spiritual grounds as well as on secular, governmental grounds (since it is the only free democracy in the Middle East).

To simply shrug our shoulders with the excuse that we should "let God be God" is akin to neglecting widows and orphans with physical assistance simply because God is their defender (Proverbs 23:11).

I do understand the underlying principle that you are conveying. We should always be willing to let God have His way. However, I also think that God's way frequently results in His desire to use people (or even governments) to bring about His will. I believe that God still sees and looks after the nation of Israel...and has used other nations to do this (like allies who ended the Shoah during WW2). Thus, I do not view Israel as "just a regular gentile nation." Yet, I would certainly agree that the nation of Israel needs God.

Personally, I feel that the idea that God completely rejected the nation of Israel by replacing the nation entirely with believes is flawed and unscriptural. Disclaimer: I am not considered "Jewish" in the sense that my mother was not Jewish. Still, my paternal grandmother was I do feel a different sort of kinship with the physical nation of Israel (at least, from a non-Halocho perspective). Anyway, I suppose that it is through these notions that influence the way that I think in regard to the nation. I still love and pray for the peace of Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6). I even hope that the nation of my temporary and secondary citizenship (the US) will not hand Israel over to its enemies. I certainly believe that God can and will protect her, but I also think that He might have been doing this through the vessel of the United States since 1948.


 2010/3/26 1:52Profile

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